right, (for the most part) people who persecute are going to be jerks in one way or another no matter way. We still don't want to give them excuses.
really? this is the first I have heard of this. (as I said before the person I sat down with and read my book as a teen was a woman and she still plays) even the woman who have been the most outliers on this I have ever talked to have said "I deal with it everyone is jerks to everyone sometimes"
I take your point, but more to my point the word persecution is still an exaggeration because the attempt is to get to "significant harm" which was what was questioned.
okay then since it was my example let me (try) to bring this right down to earth.
You don’t know anything about what place I am in, what advantages of disadvantages I have. My position on this isn’t from a lack of experience with that kind of suffering. Painting disagreements about these things as a lack of understanding, a lack of empathy, or as something where you assume people are incapable of comprehending the issue because of their life experience (or what you assume their life experience is not helpful). And this is why I invoked proselytizing in my previous remark: if your sim is to pursuade me: lecturing and talking down to me, isn’t going to achieve that. Not is making assumptions about what I have experienced.
as par for the course with you Umbran this is perfectly said.
man that is a topic all in and of itself... how many of us really know more then a handful of others? We can make broad speculation based on color creed and geography... but doing so risks us creating the sterotypes and prejudices we want to avoid.
Mod Note:
Racial terms are not offensive.Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.
It's a hyperbolic extrapolation. (Yes I can go over the top too.)
For the most part, only a relatively few people who weren't the standard "cishet white guys" audience got brought in one way or another. From there, it slowly spread via word of mouth, through friends or college groups. Slowly as in over decades, not just years. For a very long time, maybe you'd have a woman or two in your game, or a black guy, or maybe one of your players would come out as gay. But it was very much a personal table thing, because RPGs weren't targeted or, more importantly, advertised to a wider audience for a long time.
I can speak up here. I've been reading comics since forever (my dad is a comics writer/editor, my mother was a comics color artist) and gaming since about '90 or '91, although I had grown up playing the Dungeon board game and watching the old AD&D cartoon (and wondering what was so advanced about it; nobody on the show seemed to know how to use weapons correctly). I haven't had any bad experiences in a gaming or comic store. But that's quite likely because when I was younger, I'd either be with my mother, who's a talker and would always chat with the staff and often would name-drop, much to my perpetual embarrassment), or with my dad, who already knew the staff there. So... I guess the takeaway here is if you want to be a woman who reads comics of games, be related to someone in the industry who isn't a jerk themselves.
And yet I go on to have the discussion yes? You like making these arguments about people who do the opposite of what you claim they are saying. I didn’t attack anyone for the discussion. I said it feels like it is tantamount to telling people they are having bad wrong fun and it is… you’re telling people how to spend their money and what to enjoy with these arguments and implying there is something wrong with them or “othering” them for liking Rowling for example, because they allow for her views on transgender people as her views that have no bearing on their enjoyment of Harry Potter which has no statement on transgender people either way. Much like Patton Oswald recently pulling a picture of himself with Dave Chapelle and apologizing for 30 years of friendship with him because of his nuanced views.
I was a little surprised looking at old ads for D&D to see that they frequently included women. I don't just mean the one with Gail Gygax but print ads with young women and girls as players and at least one as a DM. They seemed to stop at some point though. I think a girl showed up in one of the D&D VHS games from the 90s.
