D&D 5E Peasant Revolts in 5e

[Jd Smith1]

One possibility is the peasants recruit high level heroes to help in their revolt or ally with a powerful wizard

Who end up in charge...

A peasant revolt could work in 5e, because 5e is written by people without much grasp of how violence works, what feudal/medieval times were like, or why a military unit is greater than the sum of its parts.

Most setting imply that the people are just Americans (or First Worlders) living in a interesting place. In reality, peasants/serfs lived badly; insufficient food, and poor food. They were the first to go hungry when there were shortages, they could not leave the land without their lord's permission, they were not allowed to own or train with weaponry. Illiteracy was universal, and most lived their entire (short) life within five miles of the place they were born.

When they did rise up, it was because they were desperate, and they nearly always lost (in Europe) because they were a bunch of worn-out, uneducated farm workers with improvised weapons. They did occasionally win battles against forces that were thrown together in the impression that one good blow was all that was needed, but sooner or later the powers that be sent in armored knights and professional footmen, and the peasants died in great numbers.

It was not until the musket arrived on the scene, simple and quick to be learned, that the peasants had a chance.

The best analogy for a peasant revolt is this: pick 30 people grabbed at random, ages 12-45. Put them on a football field facing the starting 11 from a college team of your choice. Send the refs home.

Play ball.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Who end up in charge...

A peasant revolt could work in 5e, because 5e is written by people without much grasp of how violence works, what feudal/medieval times were like, or why a military unit is greater than the sum of its parts.

Most setting imply that the people are just Americans (or First Worlders) living in a interesting place. In reality, peasants/serfs lived badly; insufficient food, and poor food. They were the first to go hungry when there were shortages, they could not leave the land without their lord's permission, they were not allowed to own or train with weaponry. Illiteracy was universal, and most lived their entire (short) life within five miles of the place they were born.

When they did rise up, it was because they were desperate, and they nearly always lost (in Europe) because they were a bunch of worn-out, uneducated farm workers with improvised weapons. They did occasionally win battles against forces that were thrown together in the impression that one good blow was all that was needed, but sooner or later the powers that be sent in armored knights and professional footmen, and the peasants died in great numbers.

It was not until the musket arrived on the scene, simple and quick to be learned, that the peasants had a chance.

The best analogy for a peasant revolt is this: pick 30 people grabbed at random, ages 12-45. Put them on a football field facing the starting 11 from a college team of your choice. Send the refs home.

Play ball.

And the only difference dnd makes is: magic is only probably a well-paid profession; poor magic users can exist.

The rest is the details of this specific revolt.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Who end up in charge...

I don't know. If they are Good high level characters they may stick around, and help the peasants prosper.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I don't know. If they are Good high level characters they may stick around, and help the peasants prosper.

That's a lifetime job. Historically, the few times the government is overthrown, it is inevitably replaced by something similar (American, Mexican, and French Revolutions, English and Spanish Civil Wars) or worse (Russian Civil War). Because at the end of the day, you've still got a majority of uneducated peasants with limited skills.

Tearing down a government is doable; erecting something viable in its place, however, is difficult.

But we digress.

 

[Scars Unseen]

In the real world, no clergy can actually cast spells, so of course being in charge of a church is administrative. But in a world where there are spellcasting clergy, I have zero reason to believe that mere non-spellcasting administrators would be put in a position of authority over them.

I suppose it depends on the setting and the nature of the god. In the real world, people with ambition and a certain ethical or moral flexibility tend to rise to the top. If we assume that holy power is given to those who fit a given god's ethos, then as the organization of a given faith grows in size and complexity, those of good deities would likely grow corrupt (since those given godly power are also less likely to seek worldly authority) and those of evil deities would grow dangerous. It would also be a good explanation for why gods might send tests and calamities from time to time. Shake things up and prevent human (or whatever race) nature from overshadowing the deities themselves.

 

[overgeeked]

I suppose it depends on the setting and the nature of the god. In the real world, people with ambition and a certain ethical or moral flexibility tend to rise to the top. If we assume that holy power is given to those who fit a given god's ethos, then as the organization of a given faith grows in size and complexity, those of good deities would likely grow corrupt (since those given godly power are also less likely to seek worldly authority) and those of evil deities would grow dangerous. It would also be a good explanation for why gods might send tests and calamities from time to time. Shake things up and prevent human (or whatever race) nature from overshadowing the deities themselves.

Exactly. The people with the power to visibly display the power of the gods would be out moving through the common people performing miracles, creating food, curing the sick, healing the dying, resurrecting the dead...would not be the ones sitting in a monastery, they'd be out doing those things. The way I see it, if the god chose you to give power to, they'd want you to use it. If you didn't, they'd stop giving you that power and give it to someone else who would. It's a self-correcting problem. Have divine magic, use it in the world, become worldly powerful due to your divine magic, stop doing less leg work and more desk work, the god restricts your power as you're not out there actively using it. If there's a god of bureaucracy, they'd reward you for being a bureaucrat. The rest of them want you out in the world actively doing things to advance their faith and expand their domains with the power they give you.

 

[overgeeked]

In the real world, no clergy can actually cast spells, so of course being in charge of a church is administrative. But in a world where there are spellcasting clergy, I have zero reason to believe that mere non-spellcasting administrators would be put in a position of authority over them.

Unless literally everyone in the church has a leveled cleric, there is going to be far more non-casters than casters. So what do you do with a more valuable rare resource? You use it where it can do the most good. Which is more useful to the church: doing the daily tasks of running the church or using the magic your god gave you to expand the church, show lay people miracles, convert the masses, proselytize, cure the sick, heal the dying, resurrect the dead...or sitting behind a desk?

They don't have to be brought to a heel. They can be offered lucrative positions, land, or titles, or just outright bribed with cash.

If someone is wildly more powerful than you, getting them to obey you is a big ask. People with more power (leveled casters) tend to push people with less power (non-leveled non-casters) around like they're nothing. Getting a caster to obey a noble...good luck.

I'm not sure what being pure of heart has to do with anything. But if the god is favoring some individuals over others, is it really smart to not at least offer those individuals rank--assuming that the gods don't directly send divine messages about it?

As mentioned, the godly tend to not care much for worldly power. It's one of their key traits, come to think of it. It's how you can tell if someone's really godly or really full of lies. How much do they care about worldly power and wealth?

As I mentioned above, in the real world, clergy don't cast spells. What would political savvy be like in a world where such a thing is actually possible, though? People in the real world have gladly put up with bad rulers just because they have the right bloodline. In a fantasy world, then people may very well be willing to put up with bad rulers because they can cast spells (and especially if they can cast harmful spells).

Thanks for proving my point above about casters vs non-casters and how hard it would be for non-casters to bring casters to heel. A 5E NPC with even a few levels of a caster class could take over. Only if the caster got something out of it would they deign to let a non-caster rule them.

Now, obviously, this is world-dependant.

Right. I'm describing how things work in my world. You're free to do things differently in yours. It would be great if you'd stop telling me I'm building my world wrong.

In a setting where the gods rarely interfere or aren't obviously real but must be taken in faith (Ravenloft, Eberron), then sure. In a world where maybe almost nobody has any levels, sure...

So my world. The one I'm talking about.

But in a more typical world, where magic is more common?

As a rough guide, there's about one leveled character, PCs included, per 2000 people. So even a city with 25,000 only has maybe 12-13. Including the head of state, heads of the largest religions, captains of the army, etc. The "standard" D&D world where there's a couple of magic shops in every town...nah...I'm good. I also play a version of E6. I really cannot stand the superhero fantasy that's the default in modern D&D.

 

[RangerWickett]

We've all seen the old joke where a town has to run for its life because a high-level adventurer needs a couple of experience points to get to the next level.

paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog

There's a new board game where you're kobolds who hear a 19th level adventure coming in saying, "I just need 5 XP to reach 20th level." Your goal is to be the last kobold survivor, or possibly even to embarrass the adventurer into giving up.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm not sure what being pure of heart has to do with anything. But if the god is favoring some individuals over others, is it really smart to not at least offer those individuals rank--assuming that the gods don't directly send divine messages about it?

This assumes that magic is a sign of divine favor, not seen as a burden that obligates you to go out and do good i the world or find and stop evil, and that priests can have significant divine magical power, rather than only warriors and other who go out into the world to protect and heal, get divine magic.

If someone is wildly more powerful than you, getting them to obey you is a big ask. People with more power (leveled casters) tend to push people with less power (non-leveled non-casters) around like they're nothing. Getting a caster to obey a noble...good luck.

A well trained and talented warrior vs a Wizard in a fairly small room, I’m betting on the warrior.

Especially if the warrior has 6 archers, 10 pikemen, 2 other knights, and assorted guards, to help her.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If I had any interest in grim dark worlds…they wouldn’t be places ruled by spellcasters. They’d be places where a spellcaster can legally be stabbed in the neck for mouthing off to a peasant, much less a noble. Because if everyone is selfish and the world sucks (ie grimdark worlds), that seems vastly more likely to me than magocracies.