D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[DND_Reborn]

Hey, don't knock it til you've tried it. Have you ever tried to hoe epic dirt?

Well, some of the posts in this thread would qualify as "epic dirt" IMO...

 

[Maxperson]

I want to try my own game

LUcian the human warrior
16, 15, 14, 13, 11, and 9.
fighter: (samurai)
18 str 12 dex 16 con 9 int 13 wis 14 cha
Save +8 str +7 Con +5 Wis
Feat:lucky FS: defensive
AC 21 (plate&shield) HP 85 Attack: +8/+8 1d8+4
action surge 1/sr second wind 1/sr indomitable 1/day Fighting Spirit 3/day

Bard:
16 str 11 dex 15 con 9 int 13 wis 16 cha
Saves +4 dex +7cha
Feat:lucky
AC 20 (plate&shield) HP 50 Attack: +8/+8 1d8+4
song of rest d8, spells (12) 4/3/3/1, 3 cantrips, 3d8 inspiration/sr, counter charm, expertise in 2 skills half prof to all others (and initiative)

Cleric:
16 str 11 dex 15 con 9 int 15 wis 14 cha
Saves +4 dex +7cha
Feat:lucky
AC 20 (plate&shield) HP 50 Attack: +8 1d8+4+1d8
channel divinity turn/destory undead, spells (12) 4/3/3/1, 4 cantrips


so the fighter has +1 AC and slightly HP, but the 11 spells can be used to do alot including heal so...

70% more hit points is "slightly" higher?

Also, I question why you'd put a 14 in Cha if you're making a combat beast. And also the lucky feat. With the ability to give yourself advantage on weapon attack rolls for the entire turn 3 times a day, ditch the shield and lucky. Grab a big weapon and great weapon master. Also, since Fighting Spirit gives 5 temp HP each use, he really has double the hit points of the other two, though as you noted the cleric does have some healing.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This is, IMO, the biggest divide between casters and martials (especially fighters).

D&D Casters are largely a D&D creation. sure they have some basis in stories and myth - but, especially at this point, they're their own thing. People generally agree what a D&D Wizard (or cleric or bard) is (whether they like it is a separate question).

Fighters, on the other hand, are FAR from agreed upon. Some players want Joe Schmoe just trying to survive, some want Captain America/Black Widow and some want Gilgamesh/Achilles etc. Exactly what a fighter is has never quite solidified into a general consensus. And that makes designing for them REALLY hard.

Its worth noting that even D&D novels don't reflect the overpowered absurdity that is a D&D 5th level caster. Because it's narratively boring to have every issue countered by casting "Solve Problem".

 

[Maxperson]

False dichotomy. They have different roles, different strengths.

It's not a False Dichotomy, but it is an impossibility. Especially since how useful an ability, item or spell is, is very subjective.

 

[Oofta]

Its worth noting that even D&D novels don't reflect the overpowered absurdity that is a D&D 5th level caster. Because it's narratively boring to have every issue countered by casting "Solve Problem".

If that's happening on a regular basis in your game, it's not a problem with the system.

 

[Yaarel]

Why would something that has nothing to do with the players be in the PHB? Players determine their morale for their PCs without a roll. The morale rules are for NPCs and monsters.

The PHB should be just for what the players need to make and run their characters. The rest of the rules should be in the DMG.

Even as a DM, I find it frustrating to need to rummage thru both the Players Handbook and the DMs Guide, at the same time, to doublecheck how a skill works.

I want all gaming content in the Players Handbook, especially skill info, as the only place I need to look.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Unpopular opinion

Hercules and Achilles aren't fighters.

They are another class that represents superpowers demigods and halfbreeds.

Making a new mythic hero class ala BO9S is the only way we'll get something acceptable. People are determined to keep the fighter a slightly tougher town guard for 20 levels.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Wow! Really?

Umm... no, no thank you. That is so against D&D from the beginning IME and IMO that I can't even say any more about it.

Why? Because it dares to put a non-caster on equal footing? Are you really going with it has to be "Nerds rule jocks drool" or it isnt D&D?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Even as a DM, I find it frustrating to need to rummage thru both the Players Handbook and the DMs Guide, at the same time, to doublecheck how a skill works.

I want all gaming content in the Players Handbook, especially skill info, as the only place I need to look.

In nearly 50 years of D&D, that has (virtually) never been the case. Pathfinder has one book, as do many other games.

 

[DND_Reborn]

People are determined to keep the fighter a slightly tougher town guard for 20 levels.

Slightly tougher....? PLAH-EASE give me a break.

By level 20, a champion fighter can slaughter hundreds of town guards... more so than any wizard could hope to match because the wizard will eventually run out of spells.

Why? Because it dares to put a non-caster on equal footing? Are you really going with it has to be "Nerds rule jocks drool" or it isnt D&D?

Did you miss the part of my post which you quoted:

that I can't even say any more about it.