D&D 5E How to "fix" (or at least help) the fighter/wizard dynamic. (+)

[FrogReaver]

One solution not mentioned in the OP could be to give Fighter players some limited narrative control via a metagame style mechanic (possibly roll this out to all non-full casters). I'll call it 'Just Succeed'. You get some resource for it that recharges on however often is deemed appropriate. The player may expend one to cause an ability check to succeed. This is not a magical ability - it's for changing 'what happened or rather what would happen' not 'how it happened'.

Though, such mechanics have a rather love them or hate them thing going on.

 

[Fanaelialae]

One solution not mentioned in the OP could be to give Fighter players some limited narrative control via a metagame style mechanic (possibly roll this out to all non-full casters). I'll call it 'Just Succeed'. You get some resource for it that recharges on however often is deemed appropriate. The player may expend one to cause an ability check to succeed. This is not a magical ability - it's for changing 'what happened or rather what would happen' not 'how it happened'.

Though, such mechanics have a rather love them or hate them thing going on.

True, that's how the Buffy RPG handles it. I've never played it myself, but I've generally heard positive things from those who have.

Although, with that premise, you kind of have to accept that within the lens of the narrative, "mundane" characters are sort-of less cool than their supernatural counterparts (they're only able to keep up because they're lucky, like Xander from Buffy, or Joxer from Xena). Which isn't necessarily the default flavor many folks are expecting from a 20th level fighter.

That said, I agree that it is a viable solution.

 

[Remathilis]

True, that's how the Buffy RPG handles it. I've never played it myself, but I've generally heard positive things from those who have.

Although, with that premise, you kind of have to accept that within the lens of the narrative, "mundane" characters are sort-of less cool than their supernatural counterparts (they're only able to keep up because they're lucky, like Xander from Buffy, or Joxer from Xena). Which isn't necessarily the default flavor many folks are expecting from a 20th level fighter.

That said, I agree that it is a viable solution.

It's the Jedi rule: No matter how cool Han and Leia are, they don't have a magic lazer sword and the ability to move stuff with their mind. Han can fly the Kessel Run in twelve parsecs, Leia is a cunning leader and strategist, and Luke and murder whole swaths of Deathtroopers without lifting his hood. Han and Leia are great characters, but you aren't matching that unless you give them equal magical ability (like being able to fly in space without life-support).

 

[FrogReaver]

True, that's how the Buffy RPG handles it. I've never played it myself, but I've generally heard positive things from those who have.

Although, with that premise, you kind of have to accept that within the lens of the narrative, "mundane" characters are sort-of less cool than their supernatural counterparts (they're only able to keep up because they're lucky, like Xander from Buffy, or Joxer from Xena). Which isn't necessarily the default flavor many folks are expecting from a 20th level fighter.

That said, I agree that it is a viable solution.

Less Cool maybe. I don't think it necessarily entails luck though. The narrative isn't changing - or maybe the better way to say that is that your success can be explained any way you want. If your character is a really smooth talker then the reason he persuaded the king to do X is still because he's a smooth talker (just an example). It's the outcome of the mechanical resolution process that determines whether you succeed or fail, not the number that initially comes up on the dice.

But yea, I think as a single game solution this could work great for some groups, but as a universal solution for everyone there's going to be alot of pushback on it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It's the Jedi rule: No matter how cool Han and Leia are, they don't have a magic lazer sword and the ability to move stuff with their mind. Han can fly the Kessel Run in twelve parsecs, Leia is a cunning leader and strategist, and Luke and murder whole swaths of Deathtroopers without lifting his hood. Han and Leia are great characters, but you aren't matching that unless you give them equal magical ability (like being able to fly in space without life-support).

It is so funny you should draw that parallel since Thursday night it came up between one of my players and me in conversation.

I wonder how people who have issues with fighters vs. wizards here would handle soldiers vs. jedi there?

 

[Remathilis]

It is so funny you should draw that parallel since Thursday night it came up between one of my players and me in conversation.

I wonder how people who have issues with fighters vs. wizards here would handle soldiers vs. jedi there?

I've played three different Star Wars RPGs in my time (West End, d20, EotE) and I can tell you nobody has figured out how to balance being the best pilot or a cunning diplomat or even a badass bounty hunter in head-to-toe armor with the guy who can move things with his mind, jump incredible distances, deflect Lazer bolts, or trick guards into letting them go. you either the up running all-Jedi, no Jedi, or accept Luke/Rey is going to steal the spotlight in a lot of situations.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I've played three different Star Wars RPGs in my time (West End, d20, EotE) and I can tell you nobody has figured out how to balance being the best pilot or a cunning diplomat or even a badass bounty hunter in head-to-toe armor with the guy who can move things with his mind, jump incredible distances, deflect Lazer bolts, or trick guards into letting them go. you either the up running all-Jedi, no Jedi, or accept Luke/Rey is going to steal the spotlight in a lot of situations.

Yeah, this is the sort of problem that exists in a game, but not in the fiction. Jedis simply are more powerful than non-jedis, Asgardians simply are more powerful than humans. In a movie or a book, the characters don't need to be balanced. And they don't necessarily need to be so in a game either, but that is what a lot of people (rather reasonably) expect.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've played three different Star Wars RPGs in my time (West End, d20, EotE) and I can tell you nobody has figured out how to balance being the best pilot or a cunning diplomat or even a badass bounty hunter in head-to-toe armor with the guy who can move things with his mind, jump incredible distances, deflect Lazer bolts, or trick guards into letting them go. you either the up running all-Jedi, no Jedi, or accept Luke/Rey is going to steal the spotlight in a lot of situations.

I only played WEG and d20 myself, and in both we never really had the issues other groups tell me about or that some people experience in 5E with fighters vs. wizards. I am not doubting problems have been there for others, just not IME really.

I think in d20 SW, prestige classes helped a lot, but it was over a decade ago so my memory could be faulty (old age and such ).

 

[Faolyn]

It's the Jedi rule: No matter how cool Han and Leia are, they don't have a magic lazer sword and the ability to move stuff with their mind. Han can fly the Kessel Run in twelve parsecs, Leia is a cunning leader and strategist, and Luke and murder whole swaths of Deathtroopers without lifting his hood. Han and Leia are great characters, but you aren't matching that unless you give them equal magical ability (like being able to fly in space without life-support).

Did they walk around on that asteroid with the mynocks while wearing only a gas mask?

 

[Yaarel]

For a while now, I measure character capabilities by how hit points they are worth.

Assume one is a level 1 character with 10 hit points. What is the maximum number of hit points that one would be willing to swap out in exchange for a certain capability, if this is the only way to acquire it?

In the aggregate, the method works well for low levels. Once understanding the foundational abilities, higher level abilities extrapolate.

Because the method is a measure of desirability, it can quantify disparate kinds of abilities.