D&D General Should magic be "mystical," unknowable, etc.? [Pick 2, no takebacks!]

[Lyxen]

The way I see it, and although obviously it varies from setting to setting, it's clear that magic can do pretty much everything, and that it's pretty wild. Actually, the fact that there is a magic system usable by casters but along very specific lines only just goes to show how wild it is. Yes, there are some recipes that allow safe and repetitive casting, but no-one (apart from rare exceptions) modifies these casting rules, even sorcerers can only modify them along very specific paths that are more or less safe (except for Wild Magic, obviously).

So overall, it's fairly consistent and it has the advantage of being open for the DM in terms of possibilities of having different effects, spells, and more mysticism if he wants to.

 

[aco175]

I think that in a general sense, magic is strange and unknowable. There are mage spells and prayers, that are spells themselves, that some people can learn from those that came before, but there is also more that is not learned. A lot of settings also have old magic that is no longer usable like FR and mythals and level 10 spells. New spells come from someplace besides companies trying to sell books.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

At the heart of this question is the tension between hard and soft magic but in my opinion one cannot really do soft magic in an TTRPG as that become a game of "GM may I"
All TTRPG magic systems are hard magic, in that they are codified in the rules even if things can go wrong.
However, specifically D&D has from the beginning operated magic as specific reliable reality and rules exception.
One can only jump so high/far but with the Jump Spell the following exceptions apply and so on.
Change D&D magic and risk it becoming not D&D

 

[TwoSix]

I prefer the core magic rules available to players at the outset to be clear, defined, and limited. As the game progresses, they discover more powerful magic where the rules they learned no longer apply.

Low level magic is magic missile and healing potions, high level magic is custom magic items that only the DM knows the rules for.

 

[Lyxen]

At the heart of this question is the tension between hard and soft magic but in my opinion one cannot really do soft magic in an TTRPG as that become a game of "GM may I"

Not necessarily. Ars Magica has a great system that combines formulaic magic (very close to D&D, usually more powerful but hard to customise) with spontaneous magic (more subject to interpretation, less powerful but able to do almost anything), with power guidelines.

It's also a fairly complex system that works because the magic is set along a number of dimensions, there are four realms, five techniques and 10 forms, and that's for hermetic magic which is at the core of the game for PCs, while there are other systems for non-hermetic magic. It is fairly versatile, but not necessarily covering all the types of magic of D&D, for example.

So you can have much softer magic in a TTRPG, but at the price of more complexity if you want to more or less avoid the "may I", and noting at the same time that "may I" is not necessarily a bad thing.

All TTRPG magic systems are hard magic, in that they are codified in the rules even if things can go wrong.
However, specifically D&D has from the beginning operated magic as specific reliable reality and rules exception.
One can only jump so high/far but with the Jump Spell the following exceptions apply and so on.
Change D&D magic and risk it becoming not D&D

That, I can certainly agree to, changing magic deeply (no more spells !) was for me one of the major causes of failure for 4e.

 

[jayoungr]

I picked both the "maybe" answers for maximum flexibility, because I could imagine good stories either way.

As a player, though, I find it more satisfying to engage with a game system if I know how it's going to work.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Change D&D magic and risk it becoming not D&D

I do remember folks claiming 3e "wasn't D&D" due to the way magic was changed in that edition (i.e. the addition of the Sorcerer class and its corresponding different approach to casting). Folks claimed the same a few years earlier when the Player's Option books offered alternatives, and again a few years later when 4e came out and had a different system. So your statement is time-honored!

Though the statement also falls into the category of "literal official books were published, by the makers of D&D, making/providing such changes/options, and those books say D&D on the cover" so I feel history weighs heavily against it here.

 

[ART!]

Basically, I like it mystical and at least some aspects or kinds of magic to be unknowable, but really it comes down to the setting and tone you want for your game, at your table.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Basically, I like it mystical and at least some aspects or kinds of magic to be unknowable, but really it comes down to the setting and tone you want for your game, at your table.

I for some reason want both at the same time.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't care how knowable/unknowable it may be, I just don't want it to be a commodity or in place of everyday technology/tools.