D&D 5E Truly Understanding the Martials & Casters discussion (+)

[Oofta]

but I mean just not playing the class would remove it... I assume you play with like minded adults.

it impacts when I am asking for a change to be made as either an optional add on to one class or a new class and you keep yelling "No...if he gets what he wants I wont play"

Who's yelling? I'm stating my preferences and given answers based on what my personal limits would be including additions to martial characters that I think would make sense in the scope of D&D. The word "disagree" is not a 4 letter word.

edit: I have not seen arcane yet and have no idea if it is what we are talking about or not

It's a fun show, I recommend it. It's based on a video game I've never played but the imagery includes things like:

 

[Azzy]

I think they should design a new class that is a hybrid of fighter and monk that does absolutely impossible things for breakfast. Gaze attacks that cause foes to commit seppuku. Spinkicks that reset time. They don't need darkvision, the darkness just moves out of their way. Ranged attack: finger guns. Fiends banish themselves rather than fight them. Deities call them sir/madame. That kind of thing.

We'll call the class: Chuck Norris! [emoji38]

Keep builing those strawmen and killing them with hyperbole.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Pecos Bill is a tall tale, entertainment that was never meant to be taken seriously. I wouldn't play a serious game where PCs like that are running around.

I've given my ideas on what I think they can be done, the gulf between our ideas is, as far as I can tell unbridgeable so I'm done. Again.

what exactly is your idea again as it may be less unagreeable than we all might think as thing are easy to lose online.
what do you want the difference between say a level 1 and level ten fighter to be than the 10 - 20 fighter?

 

[Oofta]

what exactly is your idea again as it may be less unagreeable than we all might think as thing are easy to lose online.
what do you want the difference between say a level 1 and level ten fighter to be than the 10 - 20 fighter?

Standard message from now on: I don't want to be rude but I'm done. Have a good one.

 

[Remathilis]

Keep builing those strawmen and killing them with hyperbole.

It's called a joke. Hence the smiley.

 

[Azzy]

It's called a joke. Hence the smiley.

A "joke" that just happens to repeat all the tired talking points that people have used in seriousness. It adds nothing to a plus thread.

 

[HammerMan]

A "joke" that just happens to repeat all the tired talking points that people have used in seriousness. It adds nothing to a plus thread.

this hasn't been a plus thread in a while... it has been a puppet battle of an edition war, a request to shut down any progress martials can have, it's even been out right arguments fore and against things... but it out gre being plus thread awhile ago (and to be honest I am still not 100% sure how plus threads are supposed to work because it seems half turn into this.)

 

[Neonchameleon]

Serious question: I know many people liked 4e, but was anyone actually clamoring for something like it at the tail end of 3.5? I always had the impression that 4e was pretty much all the dev's and corporates idea.

You mean "was anyone clamouring for a better balanced version of 3.5 where there was even more customisation and where the tactical combat was fun while save or suck and dispel magic didn't dominate, all while being free of someone needing to play the healer? Oh, and killing Vancian casting"

Almost all the fundamental decisions in the design of 4e were responses to the flaws in 3.5. Maybe not the method people wanted but the goals were there.

 

[HammerMan]

You mean "was anyone clamouring for a better balanced version of 3.5 where there was even more customisation and where the tactical combat was fun while save or suck and dispel magic didn't dominate, all while being free of someone needing to play the healer? Oh, and killing Vancian casting"

Almost all the fundamental decisions in the design of 4e were responses to the flaws in 3.5. Maybe not the method people wanted but the goals were there.

and many of us appretiated the change...

I would not have asked for 4e, and I think 4e needed work (although with skill powers and essentials and later classes it DID get alot better) my biggest complaint is that they threw out all of it instead of just working on it...

5e has some amazing changes... imagine 4e chasie with concentration, some spells rejigged so wizards have more daily and warlocks have more encounters. advantage/disadvantage instead of +/-s (well some) things like bless add d4,....

we can see in strixhaven the idea of skill challanges even if they are still a work in progress

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Fighter damage output is far greater than you & the others give it credit with o5e's generally low ac monsters multiplication of modifiers for each attack and the utterly meaningless hurdle of "resistant to nonmagical bludgeoning piercing & slashing damage". With you and the others so hung up about casters it's worth noting that energy resistance magic resistance and legendary resistance are things that can not simply be ignored with a merely uncommon weapon. This wouldn't be a problem if the areas being called for fighter to be improved in were not also the ones that other classes tend to call their niche or at least a strength. You can see a simple damage breakdown here & plus an almost excessively easy to use damage calculation spreadsheet to do some comparisons here.

At 10 and under, the fighter gets the same attacks as a valor bard, hexblade, paladin, ranger, etc. Once or twice a day they can attack an extra time. One extra ASI doesnt compete. After 10, the pathetic extra dribbles of gruel the fighter gets pales even further to the reality bending powers handed out like candy to casters. Oh, but they can theoretically grind through MMO trash fights all day!

They are thoroughly underwhelming. I get 5E is so embarrassingly watered down that it all but forces you to succeed, but the fighter is pretty soundly at the bottom of the pack.