Ukraine invasion

[Rabulias]

I wish I could agree with this, problem is there are a lot if small countries, mostly in Asia and Africa that depend upon aid from Russia. That means that when it comes to support in the council, all you have to have is the right combo of nations. This is why politics is never black and white or good and evil....even when it is.

Yes but the good news is that those nations are in the minority. In today's resolution condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 141 nations voted in favor. Only five nations (Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea, and Eritrea) voted against it. Thirty-five nations abstained (notably including China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, and South Africa), and 12 were absent. The resolution is non-binding, but it is a good expression of the world's will.

 

[FrogReaver]

My post is in response to an earlier comment. There are people outside of Russia that find his justification solid. I don't want to deny they exist. If I overstepped, I'm sorry.

 

[Zardnaar]

The history of Ukraine is very interesting. A few recent highlights. (From various sources).

1991 - Ukraine declares independence following attempted coup in Moscow.
1994 - U.S., U.K. Russia and Ukraine reached an agreement for Ukraine to give up former Soviet Union nuclear weapons.
2014 - Protests broke out in Ukraine that led to their president fleeing and parliament voting to remove him. Protests in Crimea against the new interim government broke out and they demanded a referendum on Crimea's independence. Russia invades. The referendum is held while Russia occupies Crimea. The result is Crimea joins Russia. *The referendum is highly disputed as illegal/invalid.
2019 - Television comedian Volodymyr Zelensky wins presidential election run-off in a landslide victory over incumbent Petro Poroshenko.
2021 - Jan. 2021: Zelenskiy appeals to U.S. president Joe Biden to let Ukraine join NATO. In February, his government freezes the assets of opposition leader Viktor Medvedchuk, the Kremlin's most prominent ally in Ukraine.
2021 - Spring 2021: Russia begins massing troops near Ukraine's borders in what it says are training exercises.
2021 - Dec. 17 2021: Russia presents security demands including that NATO pull back troops and weapons from eastern Europe and bar Ukraine from ever joining.
2022 - Jan. 26: Washington responds to Russia's security demands, repeating a commitment to NATO's “open-door” policy while offering a “pragmatic evaluation” of Moscow's concerns. Two days later Russia says its demands not addressed.
2022 - Feb. 24: Putin authorizes “special military operations” in Ukraine. Russian forces begin missile and artillery attacks, striking major Ukrainian cities including Kiev.

Yes but the good news is that those nations are in the minority. In today's resolution condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 141 nations voted in favor. Only five nations (Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea, and Eritrea) voted against it. Thirty-five nations abstained (notably including China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, and South Africa), and 12 were absent. The resolution is non-binding, but it is a good expression of the world's will.

I was reading yesterday a good chunk of North Africa and Turkey are reliant on Russian and Ukrainian grain.

Turkey essentially has hyperinflation they're selling government subsidized bread.

Haven't heard anything about Lebanon recently.

Morocco and Tunisia iirc may go hungry.

We're not gonna go hungry here. Russian and Ukrainian beer might run out.

More like ripple effects.

 

[Rabulias]

I was reading yesterday a good chunk of North Africa and Turkey are reliant on Russian and Ukrainian grain.

Turkey essentially has hyperinflation they're selling government subsidized bread.

Haven't heard anything about Lebanon recently.

Morocco and Tunisia iirc may go hungry.

We're not gonna go hungry here. Russian and Ukrainian beer might run out.

More like ripple effects.

Turkey, Lebanon, and Tunisia voted in favor of the resolution. Morocco was among the abstentions.

This map illustrates the voting (from United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia):

I wonder if a lot of the abstentions (in yellow) in Africa is a result of China's recent outreach efforts on that continent?

Another important distinction about today's resolution: In 2014 there was a resolution condemning Russia's annexation of Crimea. It passed, but the numbers were very different: 100 in favor, 11 against, 58 abstentions, and 24 absent (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia).

 

[Umbran]

I wish I could agree with this, problem is there are a lot if small countries, mostly in Asia and Africa that depend upon aid from Russia.

Right. So, that doesn't mean they buy his justifications. It just means they have something to lose.

And that's as far as I'm going to go into the politics.

 

[Umbran]

This is bloody brilliant!

A lot of the Russian forces are conscripts. So, Ukraine is making an offer:

Translation of the below tweet
"Russian soldier! You were brought to our land to kill and die. Do not follow criminal orders. We guarantee you a full amnesty and 5 million rubles if you lay down your arms. For those who continue to behave like an occupier, there will be no mercy."


Why fight them, when you can just pay them not to fight?

Edit: added documentation of tweet from the Ukraine Minister of Defense

 

[FrogReaver]

This is bloody brilliant!

A lot of the Russian forces are conscripts. So, Ukraine is making an offer - any Russian soldier who wants to surrender will be taken. They'll be held until the conflict is over (but allowed to speak with their families) and will be given 5 million rubles (equivalent to about $47k), and allowed to make a new life in Ukraine.

Why fight them, when you can just pay them not to fight?

Source?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well…with the recent precipitous devaluation of the ruble, it’s not as big a reward as it USED to be.

OTOH, I’ve seen some reports that they’re asking Russian mothers to pick up their POW sons at the Ukrainian border. The optics on that could be VERY intriguing.

 

[billd91]

Well…with the recent precipitous devaluation of the ruble, it’s not as big a reward as it USED to be.

OTOH, I’ve seen some reports that they’re asking Russian mothers to pick up their POW sons at the Ukrainian border. The optics on that could be VERY intriguing.

Sure beats the treatment their WWII predecessors got.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Ah propaganda. Psy-ops is alive a well. On a side note the Iraqi Psy-ops during the first Gulf War wasn't as well done. I remember ..

Dear American soldier, while you are here fighting for your Imperialist leaders, your women are sleeping with Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt and Bart Simpson.