Dragonlance DRAGONLANCE LIVES! Unearthed Arcana Explores Heroes of Krynn!

The latest Unearthed Arcana has arrived and the 6-page document contains rules for kender, lunar magic, Knights of Solamnia, and Mages of High Sorcery.

In today’s Unearthed Arcana, we explore character options from the Dragonlance setting. This playtest document presents the kender race, the Lunar Magic sorcerer subclass, the Knight of Solamnia and Mage of High Sorcery backgrounds, and a collection of new feats, all for use in Dungeons & Dragons.

Kender have a (surprisingly magical) ability to pull things out of a bag, and a supernatural taunt feature. This magical ability appears to replace the older 'kleptomania' description -- "Unknown to most mortals, a magical phenomenon surrounds a kender. Spurred by their curiosity and love for trinkets, curios, and keepsakes, a kender’s pouches or pockets will be magically filled with these objects. No one knows where these objects come from, not even the kender. This has led many kender to be mislabeled as thieves when they fish these items out of their pockets."

Lunar Magic is a sorcerer subclass which draws power from the moon(s); there are notes for using it in Eberron.

Also included are feats such as Adepts of the Black, White, and Red Robes, and Knights of the Sword, Rose, and Crown.

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[AnotherGuy]

Oh, didn't you hear, that's Jeremy Crawford.

Though, seriously, WotC has had Romani employees lately, so they probably spoke up, same as the Viatani situation.

Ah, I can understand the Vistani correlation, but you're saying they somehow identify themselves with a short child like race that suffers from an impulsive control disorder. That is not a good look.

 

[Parmandur]

Ah, I can understand the Vistani correlation, but you're saying they somehow identify themselves with a short child like race that suffers from an impulsive control disorder. That is not a good look.

No, it isn't a good look. That's why WotC is mitigating it.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Ah, I can understand the Vistani correlation, but you're saying they somehow identify themselves with a short child like race that suffers from an impulsive control disorder. That is not a good look.

Are you saying that someone cannot relate to a fictional race that shares common themes/stereotypes with the group(s) that they belong to? Because I, a diagnosed autistic man with ADHD, am very fond of the Gnome race when playing characters/worldbuilding because of how their behavior is something I can relate to (being awkward and anti-social, hyper-fixating on my interests, etc). Gnomes (and Lizardfolk and Warforged on different levels) are fantasy creatures that I can relate to. I can do the same with Vulcans and Androids from Star Trek, too.

So, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that someone can identify with/recognize stereotypes about their cultural/ethnic groups that are attached to a fantasy/sci-fi race or species.

The reason why I like Gnomes, Warforged, and Lizardfolk is due to the fact that I actually do have the stereotypes that Gnomes, Lizardfolk, and (to an extent) Warforged have embedded in them, while the stereotypes about the Romani people present in Vistani and Kender aren't accurate, are offensive to them, and have been used as excuses to discriminate against the Romani people for hundreds of years.

If @Parmandur can link some examples of Romani people objecting to the stereotypes present in the Kender, I would very much appreciate that, but I currently have no problem believing that someone would be offended by offensive stereotypes associated with their cultural/ethnic group being part of the core identity of a fantasy/sci-fi race or species.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Are you saying that someone cannot relate to a fictional race that shares common themes/stereotypes with the group(s) that they belong to?

Firstly you're jumping to a lot of assumptions in your post.
I am surprised that individuals identify their people with that particular disorder.

Because I, a diagnosed autistic man with ADHD, am very fond of the Gnome race when playing characters/worldbuilding because of how their behavior is something I can relate to (being awkward and anti-social, hyper-fixating on my interests, etc). Gnomes (and Lizardfolk and Warforged on different levels) are fantasy creatures that I can relate to. I can do the same with Vulcans and Androids from Star Trek, too.

Do you feel you are speaking on behalf of all or even the majority of diagnosed autistic persons with ADHD?

So, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that someone can identify with/recognize stereotypes about their cultural/ethnic groups that are attached to a fantasy/sci-fi race or species.

Sure.

The reason why I like Gnomes, Warforged, and Lizardfolk is due to the fact that I actually do have the stereotypes that Gnomes, Lizardfolk, and (to an extent) Warforged have embedded in them, while the stereotypes about the Romani people present in Vistani and Kender aren't accurate, are offensive to them, and have been used as excuses to discriminate against the Romani people for hundreds of years.

As far as I know they are offensive to some (unsure of amount) Romani rpgers not the Romani people. That has yet to be established in this thread.

If @Parmandur can link some examples of Romani people objecting to the stereotypes present in the Kender, I would very much appreciate that, but I currently have no problem believing that someone would be offended by offensive stereotypes associated with their cultural/ethnic group being part of the core identity of a fantasy/sci-fi race or species.

Bold emphasis mine.

 

[Dire Bare]

Ah, I can understand the Vistani correlation, but you're saying they somehow identify themselves with a short child like race that suffers from an impulsive control disorder. That is not a good look.

Oh my lord. I'm not sure if you are purposefully missing the point or not here.

Kender, or Vistani, do not equal Roma in a 100% correlation. No one is claiming they do.

But rather, Kender and Vistani share tropes and stereotypes with real-world traveler communities, including the Roma. It's more like a Venn Diagram, with the shared space in the middle being the harmful tropes/stereotypes of thieving, rootless, wanderers.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Oh my lord. I'm not sure if you are purposefully missing the point or not here.

I'm afraid you are missing the point.

Kender, or Vistani, do not equal Roma in a 100% correlation. No one is claiming they do.

I didn't state this. I do wish posters wouldn't Cathy Newman the situation.

But rather, Kender and Vistani share tropes and stereotypes with real-world traveler communities, including the Roma. It's more like a Venn Diagram, with the shared space in the middle being the harmful tropes/stereotypes of thieving, rootless, wanderers.

View attachment 153247

I disagree with the venn-diagram as presented.
I admit to not having read all the DL source books, but from what I have seen Kender are not dangerous.
Where Vistani are said to actually thieve, Kender are not thieves but suffer from an unconscious compulsive disorder.
Lastly Wanderers. So as they near adulthood Kender begin to have the Wanderlust urge. This is not permanent, they are NOT eternal drifters. Their urge is similar to the Vulcan Pon Farr except that it lasts for longer and doesn't seem to return. I certainly haven't heard anyone describing Vulcans as lusty.

EDIT: This may help.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Firstly you're jumping to a lot of assumptions in your post.
I am surprised that individuals identify their people with that particular disorder.

It's not "they identify with it/think that it's accurate", it's recognizing that it shares core stereotypes with what have historically been applied to your own ethnic group. It's not someone going "we are all travelling kleptomaniacs with tight-knit families and dangerous habits, like the Kender". It's "hey, that fantasy race shares some of the negative stereotypes that people have been accusing us of being for centuries".

Do you feel you are speaking on behalf of all or even the majority of diagnosed autistic persons with ADHD?

About what? I just gave my own personal experiences. I was not attempting to speak for the whole Autistic-ADHD community, because I can't.

I would personally not be surprised if other Autistic-ADHD D&D players have similar feelings/preferences of D&D races, especially relating to the more "castoff/misfit" D&D races, because that's a very common experience that Autistic people grow up feeling and can relate to, but no, I do not feel/think that I am speaking for the whole or even majority of the ADHD-Autistic community (that play D&D, that is).

I have heard a lot of other Autistic people say that they can relate to Data or Spock from Star Trek, and some other ADHD D&D players say that they can relate to the quirky/erratic behavior of Gnomes, but I imagine that others have a very different array of favorite player races. I could see how other Autistic/ADHD D&D players could be more drawn to races like Tabaxi, Elves, Tortles, and other player races.

I was just giving my own viewpoint based on my own experiences as an Autistic-ADHD man, and explaining how my own background would lead me to empathize with similar situations amongst individuals that are members of other groups of minorities.

As far as I know they are offensive to some (unsure of amount) Romani rpgers not the Romani people. That has yet to be established in this thread.

It can't be established. What do you want us to do, somehow poll all D&D players of Romani descent and survey them on their opinions of Kender and the stereotypes associate with them? That's not going to happen. Trying to demand quantifiable evidence here is just not the sort of discussion we're having/trying to have.

Bold emphasis mine.

That doesn't matter. That's a distinction without a difference. You're trying to draw the line and request data where there isn't one. I was just trying to give my own viewpoint of a similar (but opposite) scenario to help you and others empathize with/understand how such a viewpoint could exist. Going out of your way to pick out and highlight "individuals" as if it's some "gotcha" doesn't matter. You're having a fundamentally different discussion from what I'm having. I'm not trying to "beat" you or prove any viewpoint, more just explain how it is possible for a scenario that you think is unlikely to be possible and something to take into account.

 

[AnotherGuy]

It's not "they identify with it/think that it's accurate", it's recognizing that it shares core stereotypes with what have historically been applied to your own ethnic group. It's not someone going "we are all travelling kleptomaniacs with tight-knit families and dangerous habits, like the Kender". It's "hey, that fantasy race shares some of the negative stereotypes that people have been accusing us of being for centuries".

Yes I'm just baffled (in the same free way that persons can be offended) that anyone would recognise the core stereotype of a disorder being applied to their ethnic group. As for the dangerous and the travelling I have already established in a previous post to Dire Bear what I think about that.

About what? I just gave my own personal experiences. I was not attempting to speak for the whole Autistic-ADHD community, because I can't.

I know, and that is what I intended to highlight.
One persons offence does not somehow make it Kenders are indeed offending an entire ethnic people.

It can't be established. What do you want us to do, somehow poll all D&D players of Romani descent and survey them on their opinions of Kender and the stereotypes associate with them? That's not going to happen. Trying to demand quantifiable evidence here is just not the sort of discussion we're having/trying to have.

All of that is true as is the statement Kender are not offensive to the Romani people (collective).

That doesn't matter. That's a distinction without a difference. You're trying to draw the line and request data where there isn't one. I was just trying to give my own viewpoint of a similar (but opposite) scenario to help you and others empathize with/understand how such a viewpoint could exist. Going out of your way to pick out and highlight "individuals" as if it's some "gotcha" doesn't matter. You're having a fundamentally different discussion from what I'm having. I'm not trying to "beat" you or prove any viewpoint, more just explain how it is possible for a scenario that you think is unlikely to be possible and something to take into account.

No, I find it bizarre that is all (regarding kleptomancy)
The rest of the offensive stereotypes seem hodge-podged particularly since dangerous isn't even one that can be readily applied to Kender. Minotaurs are dangerous.

EDIT: Danny we were cross-posting. Please read my posts carefully. I am not making the claim you think I'm making. I never said they don't have the right to get offended, I'm saying I find it bizarre (re kleptomancy). Surely I'm allowed to find it bizarre the same way people have the right to get offended?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

In previous similar discussions, some posters have raised variations on the old strawman of how “X minority claiming offense at Q fictional race” is somehow invalid and shouldn’t cause offense because the similarities between X and Q aren’t enough. Thing is, that’s never the root of the complaint.

It is, as has been mentioned time and time again (in this thread and in others) that Q race is using real world negative sterotypes associated with X minority, and that this is 1) lazy writing, and 2) perpetuates the stereotypes.

So here’s a general notice: If you want to persist in using some form of “the Q aren’t X, so get over it“ assertion in discussions, it’s going to get you negative attention from the moderators of ENWorld.

And so we arrive at this destination: AnotherGuy has been threadbooted.

 

[Faolyn]

View attachment 153247

Does anyone consider the kender to be dangerous? I was under the impression--by what 2e and 3e Dragonlance game books I've read--that most non-evil humans very much liked kender for their childlike innocence.