Ukraine invasion

[Eltab]

A few months of blackouts and brownouts, and even the most determined environmentalist can start thinking that nuclear power might be one of those 'bridge technologies' ... and offer permit / construction oversight methods that do not involve "get a Court involved" -scale delays.

 

[Imaculata]

We're in talks of maybe trying to evacuate our Ukrainian colleague to the Netherlands. Stay tuned and fingers crossed.

 

[Zardnaar]

A few months of blackouts and brownouts, and even the most determined environmentalist can start thinking that nuclear power might be one of those 'bridge technologies' ... and offer permit / construction oversight methods that do not involve "get a Court involved" -scale delays.

Still won't be online anytime soon though.

WW2 would finish faster than building it.

 

[Horwath]

I am not sure that helps matters, in that you still need fuel for those reactors. Not a single country in the EU is in the top 10 list of known Uranium reserves, so with nuclear power, they still have a fuel import problem.

True, Australia and Canada are on that list, so they have options for better energy trading partners, but still - broadly speaking, moving to nuclear may change the players the the geopolitics of energy, but doesn't remove the issue.

that is true.

But we could say that Canada and Australia are far safer options than Russia, Venezuela or Saudis.

also, you can stock up uranium reserves for 30 years in reasonable amount of space. Imagine if you have to storage oil and/or gas for 30 years of consumption.

 

[Horwath]

Still doesn't change the cost or time requirements and consent process.

If they started tomorrow threw enough money at it the first new reactor might be online by 2032 at the earliest. Realistically more like 2042.

And even if they did that the reactor would still cost more than every other option.

There's a good chance Putin dies of old age before any reactor comes online.

today average time for building nuclear power plant is around 83 months with record being 39 month for a reactor in Japan.

When did this Ukraine #$"% started? Ah, yes... in 2014. So with average of 7 years, we could have had first new reactors in EU last year.

 

[Zardnaar]

today average time for building nuclear power plant is around 83 months with record being 39 month for a reactor in Japan.

When did this Ukraine #$"% started? Ah, yes... in 2014. So with average of 7 years, we could have had first new reactors in EU last year.

Yeah but it's mostly Germany reliant on gas and other countries don't have the resources or knowledge to build one.

It's not the actual construction it's locating a site and consents. Even of you fast tracked consents finding a site is difficult.

Not sure how the law works but I'm sure local nimbyism will tie up the site and construction for years.

8vyears ago Russia got a free pass no one cared enough to do much.

The west essentially enabled Russia but zee Germans and every US administration since 1993.

And even if you oked the construction of a nuclear plant it's not that economic to do so vs say cheap Russian gas. Oops.

One way or another this crisis will be over before they even confirm a site. Either Russia caves, Ukraine caves or big red button gets pressed.

The countries that can build a reactor won't for economic and political reasons the others can't afford run or can't build one.

Personally I was kinda shocked how reliant Europe is on gas. Didn't know my country was so high on renewables. Gaslines and gasworks closed decades ago. Hipsters, some commercial kitchens and BBQ's use it.

 

[Horwath]

Yeah but it's mostly Germany reliant on gas and other countries don't have the resources or knowledge to build one.

It's not the actual construction it's locating a site and consents. Even of you fast tracked consents finding a site is difficult.

Not sure how the law works but I'm sure local nimbyism will tie up the site and construction for years.

8vyears ago Russia got a free pass no one cared enough to do much.

The west essentially enabled Russia but zee Germans and every US administration since 1993.

And even if you oked the construction of a nuclear plant it's not that economic to do so vs say cheap Russian gas. Oops.

One way or another this crisis will be over before they even confirm a site. Either Russia caves, Ukraine caves or big red button gets pressed.

The countries that can build a reactor won't for economic and political reasons the others can't afford run or can't build one.

Personally I was kinda shocked how reliant Europe is on gas. Didn't know my country was so high on renewables. Gaslines and gasworks closed decades ago. Hipsters, some commercial kitchens and BBQ's use it.

however this ends, it's in EUs best interest not to buy a single ccm or russian gas/oil in nearest possible future.

it's just sad that tens of thousands will die and cities will be destroyed so someone can keep oil/gas monopoly for EU

Just hope that whatever small humanitarian aid we gather here can ease some suffering :/

 

[Zardnaar]

however this ends, it's in EUs best interest not to buy a single ccm or russian gas/oil in nearest possible future.

it's just sad that tens of thousands will die and cities will be destroyed so someone can keep oil/gas monopoly for EU

Just hope that whatever small humanitarian aid we gather here can ease some suffering :/

I agree but powers that be/consumers went with cheap energy.

Alot of things I'm opposed to are because it's just a race to the bottom on price but it ignores the other costs that don't involve $$$$.

And push comes to shove how many divisions does the UN have?

 

[Horwath]

I agree but powers that be/consumers went with cheap energy.

Alot of things I'm opposed to are because it's just a race to the bottom on price but it ignores the other costs that don't involve $$$$.

And push comes to shove how many divisions does the UN have?

cheaper is relative here, while nuclear power plants are 5/6 times more expensive then gas power plants to build, over decades of operation, nuclear come out cheaper.

maybe in 10 or so years we will have new generation of batteries that will be able to store much more power with faster charge/discharge rate to be effective in "peak power" hours of the day.

 

[Zardnaar]

cheaper is relative here, while nuclear power plants are 5/6 times more expensive then gas power plants to build, over decades of operation, nuclear come out cheaper.

maybe in 10 or so years we will have new generation of batteries that will be able to store much more power with faster charge/discharge rate to be effective in "peak power" hours of the day.

What does Croatia use?