D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Flamestrike]

Some DMs are bad at things and people force newbies to play the 'simple' class. Okay. So?

DMs are forcing people to play Fighters now?

You my friend, just jumped the Shark.

 

[Rogerd1]

Or Hero.

But basically that argument is for people who don't actually know the genre, but know they can get a negative reaction.

Hero / Champions is certainly one way to do it - although I am one of those that finds it far too crunchy to be honest.
Not sure where you are going with the second part to be honest.

 

[Vaalingrade]

DMs are forcing people to play Fighters now?

You my friend, just jumped the Shark.

Now?

It's been that way for decades now. New guy has to play a fighter to 'learn'.

I don't do it because I respect my players, but this is a thing that many, many tables do.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I fully agree with @Vaalingrade that a character's competence should not depend on magic items. Or if must, then those items should be baked in the basic progression of the class, so that they're guaranteed like certain amount of new spells is guaranteed for a wizard.

Though I really want just to be able to play a character like Conan or Tarzan who can just grab any random vaguely weapon-shaped object and brutally murderise things with it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Now?

It's been that way for decades now. New guy has to play a fighter to 'learn'.

I don't do it because I respect my players, but this is a thing that many, many tables do.

Is it though? I have never seen it to happen.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Is it though? I have never seen it to happen.

It's common to the point that it's been the go-to advice for DMs when introducing players to the game. Don't let them play a wizard, it's too complicated; have them play a fighter until they understand the game, then let them play other classes. I vividly remember having to argue the fact that I'd played Baldur's gate and Pool of Radiance to establish my bonafides enough to get to play a sorcerer in my first game.

Weirdly, people kept giving this advice in 4e, where the complexity was equal for all classes until Essentials.

 

[Flamestrike]

I fully agree with @Vaalingrade that a character's competence should not depend on magic items.

A Fighters competence is NOT dependent on Magic Items.

He just gets the most benefit from them (compared to any other class) and they open up options for him that he doesnt normally have.

He can quite easily be pumping out 100 damage per round at will at 20th level. All day long. Thats exceedingly competent.

This argument about Fighters sucking just isnt backed up in any campaign with a competent DM.

 

[Cadence]

It never occurred to me that people wouldn't take the power levels described literally. I meant Thor or Captain Marvel power level in the MCU (taking down huge space ships by flying through them, throwing tanks, being able to keep the hulk busy, or the equivalent) and not just being cool looking with a hammer of lighting bolts and able to punch a giant.

 

[Flamestrike]

It never occurred to me that people wouldn't take the power levels described literally. I meant Thor or Captain Marvel power level in the MCU (taking down huge space ships by flying through them, throwing tanks, being able to keep the hulk busy, or the equivalent)

Seeing as the classes are balanced now, as is, I would hazard a guess that that powers like that would be a little unbalancing wouldn't you agree?

 

[Undrave]

Thing is a 20th level fighter should not be approaching anything like the Avengers - that is why there are 5e supers games.

Very well... Then neither should the Wizard. Levels have to be similar or they're meaningless.