D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?

[iserith]

Couldn't agree more. I've started to wonder if retreating--especially a fighting retreat--really works mechanically in just about any trad system. Something as narratively common and straightforward as "holding off the enemy" or suppression fire often has no rules, or else terribly complex and usually low-powered subsystems. The mechanical incentives are almost always to win by dropping targets. Even doing something like throwing a bomb to delay pursuers or bashing a hole in a wall to flee through just gets lost in the details, or means you're essentially giving up multiple turns while others get the satisfying multi-mechanic experience of fighting.

If nothing else, though, games where running means enemies get free attacks on you? Yeesh. All the more incentive to stand your ground, daring the GM to murder you.

D&D 5e has chase mechanics (DMG, pages 252-255). But it leaves open the question of when combat ends and the chase begins. The DM must decide. For my part, it's typically when the PCs (or monsters) have moved "off the map" or into a specific area on the map (e.g. stairwell) and the enemies decide to pursue. (They may or may not.) Knowing this, players can position themselves accordingly.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Fudging is awesome. Because it is done to make the story better. To increase the tension. To install drama where there probably wasn't any.

I do not care in any way, shape or form about WINNING THE BOARD GAME. None at all. I care about the narrative and the story. And the cooler it is and the more fun it is during play and after play... the better the game is to me.

And before anyone asks... yes, all of us around the table COULD just "improvise a story" without all those pesky dice getting involved. I could do that and I have done that. But sometimes having those pesky dice are fun to have because they can change how the narrative progresses. They can throw curveballs into the narrative that otherwise might not have come up. Those curveballs can be really cool.

But then again, those curveballs can also be very stupid, completely illogical, and a waste of time. And so if the DM tweaks things occasionally to remove some of those stupid parts... I think that is a fabulous idea and I wholeheartedly go along with it. Especially when none of us even know it's happening.

 

[GreyLord]

Depends on what you consider Fudging.

Any modification of a dice roll is fudging in my opinion.

So, there are several different types of fudging I do sometimes.

The first is that when PC's roll their HD, I let them keep re-rolling if they wish until the roll at least half the HD or higher (in otherwords, if it is a Wizard in 5e, they need to roll a 3 or higher for it to stand, unless they WANT to have a 1 or 2 that they roll as their HP addition for that level).

If the enemy has HP rolled, and they are one of the final bosses, and the players are killing them excessively fast, I MIGHT retroactively increase what was rolled for HP to make the fight a little longer. Vice Versa, if it is taking too long, I MIGHT retroactively decrease what was rolled to just get it over with.

If they have multiple attacks and I have a player being a snit, when I roll the various colored D20s, they don't know which atttack is which, I MIGHT switch up the D20s so one is for the attack that does more damage against the offending player.

If I have a player that is overly sensitive to death or dying, I MIGHT fudge the roll so that when they are hit, the damage doesn't put them out of the combat as quickly reducing damage so that they still have 1 or 2 hp at that point. I want to to retain players....so...if it would drive them off the game I try not to do that.

So, I might do little things like that. It depends on the game.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Retreat or surrender is always an option. But a lot of players don't realise that and think once a fight starts it HAS to end with the death of either party. That's on them, though, not on the DM.

Not always.

 

[LordEntrails]

As a DM, I often roll the dice (then feign a concerned look on my face, and pretend to look something up, and shake my head ominously) and dont even look at the result.

The dice are a tool, not just a random number generator.

Good for you?

So is lying. But I know what you are doing is for "good" reasons. For me, deceiving my players is something that is only done very rarely, for fun, and revealed or over come by events very quickly.

I find when as a player my GM is constantly deceiving us, even if to just add drama, its gets boring quickly. And it erodes trust. And often when I don't trust a GM I then tend to think they are running a railroad, and I don't enjoy that. Every campaign I can remember where trust was lost soon died an otherwise premature death.

 

[LordEntrails]

Are you saying that a run of bad luck ruining someone's day is immature?

To me, a player acting poorly because of a run of bad luck is immature. Throwing dice, walking out, pouting. Those are all signs of immaturity. Ruining a day? Well, maybe. I mean it's a game. If its not fun, then maybe one should consider why they play it. My experience over 40+ years of RPGs is that it is the 'bad luck' moments that are remembered around the table years later, not the good luck ones.

 

[Umbran]

Makes me feel like I'm on a railroad. Very negative. Don't like it. Why bother rolling if the GM is going to change the results to fit their pre-written story?

You appear to be assuming it is done to fit a pre-written story. That's not a valid assumption.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I also like fudging so much as a player that I don't even bother wasting my time going to look for it. I have no idea if / when or how my DM fudges because I do not care. So I never have to ever feel like my victory was "unearned"... because I never once bother to even go and check.

I call it my "suspension of disbelief". I willing believe I'm pretending to be a dwarf fighting dragons just like I willing believe everything we do is exactly the way it was supposed to go and it happened just like it meant to. To do anything else is to ruin the magic.

 

[LordEntrails]

You appear to be assuming it is done to fit a pre-written story. That's not a valid assumption.

No, I am not. I said "it makes me feel...". I understand that logically it might not. I understand that there might be other reasons. I'm saying how it makes me feel, and that those feelings lead towards eroding trust.
Feeling and emotions are valid, even when not logical.

 

[Umbran]

My experience over 40+ years of RPGs is...

...not going to define anyone else's experience, and probably should not be used for extrapolation lightly.

You might want to try engaging in some empathy and asking questions an dlistening to answers with an open mind, rather than just resisting without understanding the situations others experience.