D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?

[Thomas Shey]

What?

If you're referring to real world time, that's true.

Both. It only made sense in the context of what he expected campaigns would be run like. But that was the point; there were no qualifications in his statement, it was just presented as a universal.

If you're referring to in game time, seeing as the entire mechanics of the game is balanced around the concepts of an adventuring day, and a 6 encounter/ 2 short rest per 24 hour long rest resource management system, then it's also true.

He thought this about OD&D, where most of that did not apply.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's the rules of the game you're playing though. So you cant complain the DM is cheating when he does it.

I've never said a word about "cheating". But that doesn't mean its a good idea.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It was your hypothetical, not mine. I don't assume there will be a TPK in the first place or that every random encounter must be defeated with sword and spell, nor do I place encounters "knowing it would TPK" the group. But if one happens, that's just what happens sometimes.

As I've said, I don't have a problem with that--until I realize its my fault as a GM because I misjudged or misunderstood things. Then there's simply a bad set of choices, and its hard to see fudging as the worst one in all cases.

 

[iserith]

Do you have preset triggers for what would make you use a random monster table?

If so, does the table have things on it that are great for a healthy party, but bad for a beat up one?

Yes, I have preset triggers, often tied to time and/or noise.

The tables don't account for the health of the PCs. If they're in bad shape, they'll need to account for how much more time they can spend in the given area and how much noise they make.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Would as many people fudge if the DMG didn't explicitly say it was ok?

Fair enough. Personally, I tend to view all the rules as more guidelines, so the fact that the DMG “allows” fudging doesn’t hold much weight for me.

If the DM calls for a die roll ... And you're lying to them if you just make up a number and act like you rolled it?

(A DM who says they never fudge, but does, or who says they rolled a certain number but didn't would also be lying. A DM who ignores the die roll and says hit or miss without giving the number is fudging. And players who don't like that should ask the DM if they ever do it in advance?)

A fair enough distinction.

 

[Cadence]

Yes, I have preset triggers, often tied to time and/or noise.

The tables don't account for the health of the PCs. If they're in bad shape, they'll need to account for how much more time they can spend in the given area and how much noise they make.

Is it like a regular "every three hours" or "three to six hours", or could they end up being surprised by some even if they're trying to get out ASAP?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Fair enough. Personally, I tend to view all the rules as more guidelines, so the fact that the DMG “allows” fudging doesn’t hold much weight for me.

I'm fussier about rules, but I don't consider GM guidance to be that, so...

 

[Flamestrike]

It was your hypothetical, not mine. I don't assume there will be a TPK in the first place or that every random encounter must be defeated with sword and spell, nor do I place encounters "knowing it would TPK" the group. But if one happens, that's just what happens sometimes.

You're obfuscating again.

You're running an adventure and you decide it's time for a random encounter. You roll on a chart for a random encounter, just as the adventure tells you to do.

It's immediately apparent to you that the encounter you randomly generated will TPK your party. Your party have done nothing wrong, and the campaign is going along well, and everyone is having fun.

Do you:

1) Adhere to the dice roll, and duly TPK the party, bringing the campaign to a crashing halt, or
2) Ignore the dice roll, and substitute an encounter better suited to the story and the players?

 

[Charlaquin]

Except, as I've noted, that only works until you've made a critical mistake as a GM. Neither group is going to be happy being rolled-over by one of those.

Mistakes happen. GMs are human. Apologize and try to do better next time.

 

[Charlaquin]

What about those of us that would rather the DM run the game instead of dice?

The DM does run the game. Part of running the game is knowing when to use dice (as well as when not to use them).