D&D 5E What is +1 Strength worth?

[Minigiant]

The big issue is an edition designed to be for everyone should have variant rules for everyone. To me the biggest mistep in 5e is not be released with a ton of optional variants at the start of it were going to be for everyone but have a traditional Old School base system assumption.

How much a +1 STR is worth for a fighter should be up to a table and decided by which variants the table uses. 5e missed the boat on that one and has been playing catch up ever since.

 

[Lyxen]

5e was designed this way on purpose.

The issue is that the audience that 5e attracted that makes it the most successful edition happen to not like it.

There is no proof of this, rather the contrary I'd say. It's rather a fraction of players of previous editions who expected something else who happen not to like it, but they are by far the minority now.

5e: Suffering from Success

5e = just enjoying its deserved success. What makes you think it's suffering ?

 

[Minigiant]

No, the audience loves it, that's why it sells. That you and I might not makes no nevermind to WoTC.

The new audience loves 5e.
The new audience hates a few of 5e's rules.

Just be because you buy a book doesn't mean you like everything in it

 

[Lyxen]

The big issue is an edition designed to be for everyone should have variant rules for everyone. To me the biggest mistep in 5e is not be released with a ton of optional variants at the start of it were going to be for everyone but have a traditional Old School base system assumption.

And yet, there are tons of options in there, but the (justified) position was to make it simple to understand but still enjoyable as a community, which can not happen if there are strong options all over the place. Once more, it's easy to criticise and suggest that it would have been better otherwise, but all evidence points to the contrary.

How much a +1 STR is worth for a fighter should be up to a table and decided by which variants the table uses. 5e missed the boat on that one and has been playing catch up ever since.

No, it has not, sorry. Publication has been rightfully slow and the amount of options has increased, but not in the incredibly stupid fashion of 3e.

 

[Minigiant]

There is no proof of this, rather the contrary I'd say. It's rather a fraction of players of previous editions who expected something else who happen not to like it, but they are by far the minority now.

Nah, it's the new players. They are the major component of the people who have different expectations. They are the ones drawing the goblin magical girls and yielding fighters all over the net.

The fans of previous editions are hopping on the bandwagon to be the mouthpieces in order to get what they wished was in old editions.

 

[Fenris-77]

Not specifically, no, but they drew your attention.



And it's not the only other option, see above. But I take note, I will use bold underlined red text next time, if it makes you feel better.



I would certainly prefer more reasoned discourse than this post which provides no justification for your claims.

Well, if you want to ignore the functional part of my post ok. I don't do red text, and im not nearly as interested as you seem to be in friction. So, have a great day, and we shall speak of this no more.

 

[Fenris-77]

The new audience loves 5e.
The new audience hates a few of 5e's rules.

Just be because you buy a book doesn't mean you like everything in it

I almost never like everything in an RPG book. Im a contrarian though, so YMMV.

 

[Minigiant]

And yet, there are tons of options in there, but the (justified) position was to make it simple to understand but still enjoyable as a community, which can not happen if there are strong options all over the place. Once more, it's easy to criticise and suggest that it would have been better otherwise, but all evidence points to the contrary

I'm not saying the base needs to be complex.

I'm saying that 3-5 more variants would end 50% of the bellyaching here and elsewhere

No, it has not, sorry. Publication has been rightfully slow and the amount of options has increased, but not in the incredibly stupid fashion of 3e.

3e and 4w printed options too fast.
5e printed options a bit too slow.

And 5e's official variants are painfully slow. Hence all the "what's missing" "where is X" "when is Y coming" "Z in 2022?" "Which 3rd party book has Q"

 

[Minigiant]

I almost never like everything in an RPG book. Im a contrarian though, so YMMV.

My point is that the characters assumptions of 5e were designed solely for old school fans.

New school and mid school players tend to prefer PCs that don't meet the base assumption of 5e as it was originally published.

Hence the huge variation of what many fans think what +1 Strength should be worth.

 

[Lyxen]

I'm not saying the base needs to be complex.
I'm saying that 3-5 more variants would end 50% of the bellyaching here and elsewhere

With options, the problem are rarely the options in and of themselves. The problem is the combos with the other options, you cannot playtest them all, and this is what killed 3e. Honestly, at some level, the designers did a reasonable job on each option individually. But not only did the end result end up being sprawling, it got completely out of control. The only way out of this is the PF2 solution, tighten all the screws by using a specific vocabulary and jargon, and be very precise with each of the options, which in turns renders the rules huge, unreadable, and unplayable by anyone but geeks.

3e and 4w printed options too fast.

Note that due to its more controlled system, 4e maintained things way better under control, but at the cost of a restricting system and still 3 times more rules for combat than 5e. That's a lot of difference, a factor 3...

5e printed options a bit too slow.

Not to my taste. We are still playing 2-3 campaigns in parallel every week and still vanilla. The richness and openness of the system is not in the rules options, it's inherent in an open ended universe and world to play with. We are far from having exhausted all the available options, they are absolutely infinite.

And 5e's official variants are painfully slow. Hence all the "what's missing" "where is X" "when is Y coming" "Z in 2022?" "Which 3rd party book has Q"

Only few people ask this, most just want new adventures, I'm pretty sure.