D&D General Orcs on Stairs (When Adventures Are Incomplete)

[Ruin Explorer]

You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. If you want the PCs to die from the fall, then they die. If you don't, they don't and take a lot of falling damage instead. It's really just that easy.

It definitely isn't and whilst you haven't addressed any of my points, I've shown it's not that simple, particularly not in 4E.

I'll add, if you're clear with your players that "Hey, you're going to be really far up, if you fall you'll die," you're players will prepare for this by prepping feather fall, tying ropes to each other, etc.

Yeah, and that's going to make it EVEN MORE relevant as to how far the PCs actually fall! There's a huge difference between Featherfalling 500 feet and the party having to go down a few hundred feet to meet up with you (or vice-versa) and Featherfalling 5000 feet and it likely taking you at least 10x as long to meet up.

If you DM fiat killing a PC from unspecified falling damage in 4E (given how difficult it is to die in 4E), the players would be in the right to say "Okay, you're not the DM anymore, roll a character", frankly. That's just a more individualized take on "rocks fall, everyone dies!". Be even worse in 5E, where barring optional rules falling can at most knock you to 0 HP and thus start you on the Death Saves.

 

[Mort]

Has WotC ever made a great adventure? I've played and read through a lot of them, and I can't think of one that really impressed me. Some had at least a few neat ideas, but usually it's "bare bones plot and crazy bad guys with strange abilities, plus a memorable NPC or two".

A lot of Sunless Citadel actually builds on the lore for the ancient red wyrm that does not appear in the adventure at all, and really, the only truly memorable part of the adventure is Meepo and the kobolds.

"Weird semi-vampiric Druid with evil tree" as a final boss was like, eh?

I don't know if it's quite "great" but Lost Mines of Phandelver is an extremely solid adventure.

Nice easy (as in easy to set up and get going) start that leads to a well thought out town and exploration adventure.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

But then you have to decide what the Orcs are doing while you're taking the extra time to prepare. If you can even spare the time, of course, I've played under a few DM's who get snippy when the players try to be cautious about things.

This is literally just a part of DMing. You decide whether the orcs sit and do nothing, or attack while prepping.

It definitely isn't and whilst you haven't addressed any of my points, I've shown it's not that simple, particularly not in 4E.

Yeah, and that's going to make it EVEN MORE relevant as to how far the PCs actually fall! There's a huge difference between Featherfalling 500 feet and the party having to go down a few hundred feet to meet up with you (or vice-versa) and Featherfalling 5000 feet and it likely taking you at least 10x as long to meet up.

If you DM fiat killing a PC from unspecified falling damage in 4E (given how difficult it is to die in 4E), the players would be in the right to say "Okay, you're not the DM anymore", frankly. That's just a more individualized take on "rocks fall, everyone dies!".

I don't know 4E well so won't comment much on this. At this point, I'd have to actually read what the module says instead of the OP's summary. But yes, on the last sentence, if you say beforehand "You guys are really high up, if one of you falls YOU WILL DIE," and then they don't do anything about that and they die... well, their fault!

 

[James Gasik]

I don't know if it's quite "great" but Lost Mines of Phandelver is an extremely solid adventure.

Nice easy (as in easy to set up and get going) start that leads to a well thought out town and exploration adventure.

Lost Mines is pretty good, though it was very strange going through that after having played 5e for awhile and wondering why the starter adventure has so many "optional" magic items...

 

[edosan]

As I read through this thread I keep thinking "Dragon Heist, yep, Dragon Heist..." and it seems like I am not the only one with a deep and abiding distaste for that book. The fact that so many people say it's one of WOTC's best baffles me. That the dedication of the book refers to "hundreds of playtesters" - man, I can't even go there.

Part of the problem is so many adventure designers seem to be frustrated novelists and part of it is this idea that only a story-based campaign will sell (which, of course, is destined to fall apart the moment a party does something unanticipated) and a big part of it is a company couldn't sell adventures made to be played (as opposed to just read) for $50+.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't know 4E well so won't comment much on this. At this point, I'd have to actually read what the module says instead of the OP's summary. But yes, on the last sentence, if you say beforehand "You guys are really high up, if one of you falls YOU WILL DIE," and then they don't do anything about that and they die... well, their fault!

That just isn't how 4E or 5E work. Period. I dunno what else to tell you.

Particularly if, say, looking at 5E to keep it simple, in this case you fell 1000ft or whatever and Urriak sez "You're dead, they'll never find the body because even I have no idea where it is as I'm not keeping track, please roll another character", and then few months later, someone falls off an airship 2000ft, and you actually use the falling rules, and they're just reduced to 0 HP, and someone manages to drop down and help them before they're out of Death Saves (or they otherwise self-stablize), I think the players are going to have some awkward questions for you about why Throknar got auto-killed but Xixor The Magnificent got to actually use the rules?

Now maybe in your group that is totally fine and consensual and they're all totally into the DM using fiat to kill off PCs. I've seen stranger things. But that just you describing how it would work in your group. It is most assuredly not extensible to all groups, or even most, I would suspect.

 

[Lyxen]

Has WotC ever made a great adventure?

Well, I really liked Tomb of Annihilation. It's not perfect, but the balance of City + Hexcrawl + Really well done Dungeon in a nice jungle environment is cool.

Same with BG - DiA, again, City + Cool Avernus Setting including Warlords, the Emporium and Infernal War Machines, plus the story of the fall of Zariel, all of that is quite cool to me.

Nothing for 4e. The Arc ideas for the main APs (Orcus vs. the Raven Queen) is cool but the realisation atrocious, and I sort of liked Scales of War, but it was very very meandering (and in the end, as most 4e modules, it was mostly a set of encounters that looked cool tactically, not what I'm looking for).

As for 3e, well, Shackled City and Age of WOrms were cool but I'm not sure they qualify. Deep Horizon was not bad, The Speaker in Dreams had some flaws but was OK, and we really liked Lord of the Iron Fortress (Planescape feel and high level) and especially Bastion of Broken Souls, not perfect but really not bad for a really high level adventure finishing the AP.

But then I do a lot of customisation when running campaigns / modules and I'm fairly forgiving, so...

 

[James Gasik]

As I read through this thread I keep thinking "Dragon Heist, yep, Dragon Heist..." and it seems like I am not the only one with a deep and abiding distaste for that book. The fact that so many people say it's one of WOTC's best baffles me. That the dedication of the book refers to "hundreds of playtesters" - man, I can't even go there.

Part of the problem is so many adventure designers seem to be frustrated novelists and part of it is this idea that only a story-based campaign will sell (which, of course, is destined to fall apart the moment a party does something unanticipated) and a big part of it is a company couldn't sell adventures made to be played (as opposed to just read) for $50+.

The IDEA of Dragon Heist is apparently pretty cool. And in the hands of a skilled DM who can urge the party along the right path, and figure out how to troubleshoot on the fly, it's probably a blast.

Not all of us have the time, patience, ability to think on our feet, and charisma to keep a game rolling so smoothly..

I'm reminded of the first 5e Baldur's Gate adventure I ran. The short version is, the module urges you to work for one of three factions. Very quickly, however, it stops giving you anything for the players to do if they worked for the Noble Faction (who, it turns out, are the bad guys).

Apparently the adventure writer simply said "ha, there is no way a group of HEROES would work for Nobles!"

But you made it a choice....

 

[James Gasik]

Well, I really liked Tomb of Annihilation. It's not perfect, but the balance of City + Hexcrawl + Really well done Dungeon in a nice jungle environment is cool.

Same with BG - DiA, again, City + Cool Avernus Setting including Warlords, the Emporium and Infernal War Machines, plus the story of the fall of Zariel, all of that is quite cool to me.

Nothing for 4e. The Arc ideas for the main APs (Orcus vs. the Raven Queen) is cool but the realisation atrocious, and I sort of liked Scales of War, but it was very very meandering (and in the end, as most 4e modules, it was mostly a set of encounters that looked cool tactically, not what I'm looking for).

As for 3e, well, Shackled City and Age of WOrms were cool but I'm not sure they qualify. Deep Horizon was not bad, The Speaker in Dreams had some flaws but was OK, and we really liked Lord of the Iron Fortress (Planescape feel and high level) and especially Bastion of Broken Souls, not perfect but really not bad for a really high level adventure finishing the AP.

But then I do a lot of customisation when running campaigns / modules and I'm fairly forgiving, so...

I guess I did WotC a disservice here, I really enjoyed Scales of War in 4e. I liked Chaos Scar (if it was a bit brutal) but new chapters were released irregularly, and then it just...ended.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

"You're dead, they'll never find the body because even I have no idea where it is as I'm not keeping track, please roll another character",

EDIT: I'm going to exit the discussion here as clearly my intention is not getting across, but set the height to something that will likely kill all the players if they fall. That's it. I dunno what that is because the OP hasn't said the module, what level it's for, or much context at all really... but it's really just that simple. If you think that's unfair, set the height lower.