D&D 5E Krynn's Free Feats: setting-specific or the future of the game?

[Micah Sweet]

Playing a long-term campaign isn't always the goal.

And if it is, you simply play in systems (or modify one) where the lethality is lower. There are plenty of systems and methods in which PC death is only an outcome if the player chooses it to be one.

I strongly object to systems and methods of that sort (though I'm sure others find them fun). But it absolutely isn't necessary to limit lethality to have a long-term campaign. For example, you can create a reason in-universe for new PCs to show up in the game. I and many of my DM friends have done this, and it worked great.

 

[TwoSix]

I strongly object to systems and methods of that sort (though I'm sure others find them fun). But it absolutely isn't necessary to limit lethality to have a long-term campaign. For example, you can create a reason in-universe for new PCs to show up in the game. I and many of my DM friends have done this, and it worked great.

To clarify, it's a method if the desire both a long-term campaign AND a campaign in which the focus is primarily on the PC's story arcs, not the setting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To clarify, it's a method if the desire both a long-term campaign AND a campaign in which the focus is primarily on the PC's story arcs, not the setting.

Its a method, yes. But not the only method.

 

[TwoSix]

heck even the meaning of longterm is up in the air... I ran a 16 month campaign that went from level 2 through level 12, and in the same (apporximit) time period played in one that went from 3rd to 20+epic boons over about 13 months... I know that 1 player remembers the shorter campagin (by months) but with faster leveling as the 'longer' campagin.

Definitely. I also feel that games focused on PC's story arcs tend to be shorter, in general. Games with wandering groups where the focus is just on getting into adventures and the PC motivations aren't the driving force lend themselves to long-term campaigns better. Sort of like how procedurals can run for 20 seasons but character-focused dramas tend to end after 4-5 seasons at most.

 

[Vaalingrade]

My apparently super-fragile campaign lasted two years and three months without killing PCs or bowing to the will of the dice.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Definitely. I also feel that games focused on PC's story arcs tend to be shorter, in general. Games with wandering groups where the focus is just on getting into adventures and the PC motivations aren't the driving force lend themselves to long-term campaigns better. Sort of like how procedurals can run for 20 seasons but character-focused dramas tend to end after 4-5 seasons at most.

yup the more the players are the center of the game the shorter the window is my experence in general...

 

[Jaeger]

how do you run a game that doesn't have a line?

Ok, so it is rather straight forward:

For the first session you do need to lay down the basic premise of the game world, and some initial hook to get the PC's rocking and rolling.

I will use a Classic example: B1 keep on the Borderlands is often used as a campaign starting point. (It can be set down in lots of D&Dish settings).

A simple premise being that the PC's have decided to seek their fortunes on the borderlands, the Castellan of the keep is rewarding sellswords that help against the goblin and orc incursions. Thus freeing his men to patrol the trade road.

You have several factions: Bandits, lizardmen, the necromancer and monster factions on the caves of chaos. The you have the Castallan and several NPC's in the Keep. All with their own goals and agendas. All in a constant state of flux once the PC's start interacting with the setting, Npc's and Factions.

So the PC's may start out on a simple orc hunt, but once they start meeting and interacting with the other NPC's and factions in the area the game can go in many different directions. Maybe they meet the bandits and successfully parley with them. Join them or take them over? Do a deal with the Castellan with their now bigger forces? Maybe they don't like the risk/reward of orc hunting. So they decide to rob the Keep? Maybe they encounter the necromancer and find out that he is conspiring with some high ranking NPC's in the keep to destroy it - what do they do now?

And in the middle of all this what about those pesky lizardmen?

The options and paths are near limitless. And if they decide to follow up on that rumor that the village of Homlet is having troubles, they may decide to go take a look. Or they might not. It doesn't matter. As the GM I am managing the chaos created by the PC's. Having the factions and NPC's reacting to what is going on during play.

There is no need for an overarching storyline because the PC's are in a setting of adventure opportunities, and are free to go and do what they want to improve their lot in the world. Causing all kinds of varied consequences, mayhem, and in-game fallout in the process.

It is very player driven campaign play.

except in YOUR world the PCs are interchangeable and will always follow what the last PCs did... and as such no one of them matter.

This is incorrect. They are fully able to go in a completely different direction.

"Screw this, Let's go be Pirates." Is always an option.

And unless the payer is playing every PC as a clone of their own personality; each character is different, influencing the party in different ways.

FYI once you admit to one true wayism you admit to not understanding D&D

Seeing as how I had to explain how running a game without a storyline works, I think I get it pretty ok...

Nobody has suggested this... this is YOUR idea

Not my idea - "...the GM does not have to resort to system manipulations in order to serve the outcome of any preconceived 'story'." - is a reasonable extrapolation based on other posts.

Rather conveniently like these:

There are plenty of systems and methods in which PC death is only an outcome if the player chooses it to be one.

My apparently super-fragile campaign lasted two years and three months without killing PCs or bowing to the will of the dice.

Which leads me to:

you simply play in systems (or modify one) where the lethality is lower.

^This^

A lot of groups would be better off going to a different system that does the style of play that they want from the jump. Rather than having to fight against the system to get the in-game results that they want.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wonder what it would look like if everyone that got the 'stop playing in the system' response left D&D...

 

[Maxperson]

Ok, so it is rather straight forward:

For the first session you do need to lay down the basic premise of the game world, and some initial hook to get the PC's rocking and rolling.

I will use a Classic example: B1 keep on the Borderlands is often used as a campaign starting point. (It can be set down in lots of D&Dish settings).

A simple premise being that the PC's have decided to seek their fortunes on the borderlands, the Castellan of the keep is rewarding sellswords that help against the goblin and orc incursions. Thus freeing his men to patrol the trade road.

You have several factions: Bandits, lizardmen, the necromancer and monster factions on the caves of chaos. The you have the Castallan and several NPC's in the Keep. All with their own goals and agendas. All in a constant state of flux once the PC's start interacting with the setting, Npc's and Factions.

So the PC's may start out on a simple orc hunt, but once they start meeting and interacting with the other NPC's and factions in the area the game can go in many different directions. Maybe they meet the bandits and successfully parley with them. Join them or take them over? Do a deal with the Castellan with their now bigger forces? Maybe they don't like the risk/reward of orc hunting. So they decide to rob the Keep? Maybe they encounter the necromancer and find out that he is conspiring with some high ranking NPC's in the keep to destroy it - what do they do now?

And in the middle of all this what about those pesky lizardmen?

The options and paths are near limitless. And if they decide to follow up on that rumor that the village of Homlet is having troubles, they may decide to go take a look. Or they might not. It doesn't matter. As the GM I am managing the chaos created by the PC's. Having the factions and NPC's reacting to what is going on during play.

There is no need for an overarching storyline because the PC's are in a setting of adventure opportunities, and are free to go and do what they want to improve their lot in the world. Causing all kinds of varied consequences, mayhem, and in-game fallout in the process.

It is very player driven campaign play.

Yes. It is very player driven campaign play. And it still has a line you can draw from the first PC action to the last that is the storyline. It's just a storyline created through game play more so than by the DM.

This is incorrect. They are fully able to go in a completely different direction.

"Screw this, Let's go be Pirates." Is always an option.

LOL My players quite literally did that to me one campaign. Session 0 was..

Players: We want you to come up with a storyline this time.

So I created a story about demons starting to come through the planar barriers in greater numbers, possessing people and objects.

Players: Demons?! Screw this! Let's go south and become pirates.

So I worked on pirates for them and at some point they found a spelljamming helm and began flying around. The campaign ended before they tried to see how high it would go, though.

 

[Jer]

A lot of groups would be better off going to a different system that does the style of play that they want from the jump. Rather than having to fight against the system to get the in-game results that they want.

I have it on good authority from this board that D&D 5e is a low lethality game where it's almost impossible to kill a PC.