Well, I mean, I did do that, but I can give it again. Different system, so it obviously would need translation, but the fundamental concept is sound. Specifically, the Dungeon World Fighter class and its Bend Bars, Lift Gates move.
As a quick preface, so mechanical differences are explained in advance: In DW, which IIRC you are at least somewhat familiar with, players roll 2d6+MOD for almost everything (stat mods are always three capital letters; stat scores are the full text of the stat's name). This is exploited to give ranges of success: rolling 10+ is a full success/hit (so you get all or almost all of what you want), 6- is a miss/fail (so you don't get what you want and something bad happens), and 7-9 is a partial success (which can mean "get what you want + complication," "get part of what you want," or "get a weakened or lesser version of what you want," among other things.) Many moves have a structure where you have a list of roughly 3-5 options, but how many you get from that list depends on how well you roll, e.g. if there are four options, a 7-9 may give you two picks, while a 10+ might give three (and later improvements might allow you to get all four on 12+, or choose to enhance one of those benefits, or the like.)
With that out of the way, here's the text for Bend Bars, Lift Gates:
This is a default move of the Fighter playbook. No one else gets this move, as playbook rules (in the base game, anyway) are mostly unique to each class. The main exceptions are Cleric and Wizard, since their "Cast a Spell" move is essentially identical apart from class-specific flourishes about the costs of mediocre or bad rolls. Other than that specific move, however, each class gets its own unique moves.
Now. This is clearly an exploration-focused move, albeit one that might have very niche uses in combat. Things like "nothing of value is damaged" and "it doesn't make an inordinate amount of noise" are really only useful if you're trying to avoid detection or not sacrifice useful resources, which is rarely (not never, but rarely) relevant once combat has already begun. Further, even with a 10+, you only get to choose 3--even on a "full" success, you can't get everything you might want. (I have instituted, as part of my "Legendary" beyond-max-level rules, a new additional success category, "superlative success," for when you roll 13+, in other words, beyond the limits of ordinary mortals. This may grant all options from a list, or enhance the benefits of a move in some other way.)
I consider this an excellent example of a clear, useful, Fighter-specific ability that offers a defined area of competence. Its utility applies to some (but not all) stealthy situations, something Fighters are otherwise not necessarily good at, and it encourages Fighters to think about the environment around them, not just the threats that might need to be killinated. By design, it doesn't give you everything, but it may be very useful.
This is far from the only utility-focused move Fighters can take, it's just the only one they automatically start with. Their other starting moves make them able to use heavy armor without penalty, and give them a Signature Weapon which they can choose the details of. (It may be worth noting, here, that DW explicitly recommends against having more than one player play the same playbook, because it can lead to the two characters feeling too samey.) Giving some brief summaries of their other utility move options (which are purely elective; it is quite possible to play a Fighter that never takes a single additional utility move): Heirloom (roll+CHA; consult the spirits in your Signature Weapon for guidance, maybe being asked questions in return; 10+, get a detailed answer, 7-9, get a vague impression), Interrogator (when you Parley, a generic move, using threats of violence as leverage, roll+STR instead of +CHA), and debatably Through Death's Eyes (when you go into battle, roll+WIS: 10+, name someone who will live AND someone who will die; 7-9, name someone who will live OR someone who will die; 6-, you see your own death and take a penalty. Please pick NPCs, not player characters, and "the GM will make sure your vision comes true if it's even remotely possible.")
All of these are unique to the Fighter playbook. In theory, a character can pick them up if they take a multiclass move (most classes get one or two multiclass move opportunities, some narrower than others), but apart from that, only Fighters get these things. Barbarians, by contrast, get a completely different set of moves with utility benefits, and very little in the way of starting utility. (For example, there's a move that just straight-up declares you've travelled pretty much everywhere, so any time you enter a region or city etc., you can ask the DM about the traditions, rituals, etc. of that place and "they'll tell you what you need to know.")
Again: this is from a different system, and so it cannot JUST be ported over wholesale, that's not how game design works. But it provides a clear example of something that can be Fighter-unique and open-ended in its use, without being "good at everything." Bend Bars, Lift Gates is useless for forging a document, deceiving a guard, persuading a noble/royal, or surviving in winter. In a heavier system like D&D, I would hope that the equivalent of Bend Bars, Lift Gates would be one option among a small handful (e.g., perhaps you could pick your choice of two from BB,LG, a "survive the trenches" kind of thing, and a "I may not be good with words, but my buddy is, you should really listen to them" kind of thing). Again, not enough to be "good at everything." Not even enough to cover all areas of a relatively narrow thing like "exploring a ruin"; BB,LG offers no direct utility for, say, climbing around a wide spike-pit by clinging to the dilapidated walls. But it's enough to give a clear, defined area of competence that can be leveraged, and which players are encouraged to consider creatively and exploit.
Right. So at least you get a bit where I'm coming from. Though I have hard time imagining even a skilled normal human threatening an Asgardian unless they have some excellent gear, as Asgardians seem to be bullet proof and otherwise massively resilient, so I can't see how they could actually harm them.
I don't know that that is true... if thor (or superman for that matter) can not pass out from pain when hit by a nuke, then how can they feel a caress? none of it makes sense if you look at it for even a minute. We see thor get slapped. we see him react (first thor movie he may not have his thunder powers but he is still an asgardian) In agents of shield (yes I know alternat reality MCU not movie canon but it appears to be adjacent with at least similar rules) we meet an asgardian who stayed on earth and can be punched and tripped no problem... even if he is super tough and long lived for us.
And as I said, there is some hard limits. I can't accept that you can be skilled enough that your punches can harm a nuke-proof person, at least not if the fiction is that you're a basically a normal person instead of a magical martial artist.
what makes those martial arts magic is just fluff...
batman puts on a suit and plugs into the city and can punch superman... superman can tank a hit of his home sun Rao and/or all the magic force in the universe in some comics, but in others a simple spell can stop him cold. ... sometimes thor and hullk can duke it out and level cities while spiderman is little more then crowd control, but other times spiderman can go toe to toe with them (or web them with webs as strong as steel and it hold even if 2 pages earlier they ripped through steel like paper)
Which brings us back to D&D. I have for a long time advocated the game flat out stating that high level characters are mythic heroes, and even martials are not truly 'mundane' at that point, so they can do some stuff that is impossible in real life. Though lower levels should remain more grounded.
yeah I think even 1st level (although I have heard convinceing arguments for making it 3rd or 5th level) classed PCs should have the 'you are no longer mundane' label.
There's fan arguments and then there's what's actually happens in the story. Nothing should be able to beat the Hulk because the more angry he gets, the stronger he gets with no upper limit and he can change retroactive to Banner being injured to the point of death.
And yet who killed Hulk most recently?
Hawkeye.
Edit:
Actually, Ant-Man depending on which media you follow.
Point is, the Power of Plot and Rule of Cool are more important than power levels.
I don't know that that is true... if thor (or superman for that matter) can not pass out from pain when hit by a nuke, then how can they feel a caress? none of it makes sense if you look at it for even a minute. We see thor get slapped. we see him react (first thor movie he may not have his thunder powers but he is still an asgardian) In agents of shield (yes I know alternat reality MCU not movie canon but it appears to be adjacent with at least similar rules) we meet an asgardian who stayed on earth and can be punched and tripped no problem... even if he is super tough and long lived for us.
Sense of touch is not exactly same as pain and of course a person can be pushed or tripped if they're not super heavy. But if you are resilient well beyond bullet-proof, then fists of a normal human simply cannot threaten you. They would break their own hands before they harmed you. Yes, I care about this sort of consistency, and it bugs me if it is ignored.
what makes those martial arts magic is just fluff...
batman puts on a suit and plugs into the city and can punch superman... superman can tank a hit of his home sun Rao and/or all the magic force in the universe in some comics, but in others a simple spell can stop him cold. ... sometimes thor and hullk can duke it out and level cities while spiderman is little more then crowd control, but other times spiderman can go toe to toe with them (or web them with webs as strong as steel and it hold even if 2 pages earlier they ripped through steel like paper)
But this is not a good thing! I is mildly annoying in a story, but unbearable in an RPG! If I play the Spider-man, immerse to his point of view, I actually need to have a roughly consistent idea of what my webs can do!
yeah I think even 1st level (although I have heard convinceing arguments for making it 3rd or 5th level) classed PCs should have the 'you are no longer mundane' label.
No, hard disagree on the 'super' level threshold. It should be somewhere beyond ten. A lot of people want their martials to be mundane so this gives them half the levels to be that, and it also plays well with one of D&D's main appeals: "from zero to hero." You start out as somewhat gifted normie and end up as mythic hero. It doesn't work if you're a mythic hero from the get go.
I'm a big fan of emphasizing that the real power of Superman are his heart and his influence.
He is great because he is the kind of person who legitimately deserves all the power he has and he uses it our of genuine care for people and that inspires others to be better.
That's why the best Superman story is...
My Hero Academia.
Both in terms of his expy, Allmight and from the fact that the story is all about the power of a superhero to inspire and uplift, acknowledging that is part of a lineage that arguably started with Superman and what he has come to mean both in his universe and in ours.
Sense of touch is not exactly same as pain and of course a person can be pushed or tripped if they're not super heavy. But if you are resilient well beyond bullet-proof, then fists of a normal human simply cannot threaten you. They would break their own hands before they harmed you. Yes, I care about this sort of consistency, and it bugs me if it is ignored.
But this is not a good thing! I is mildly annoying in a story, but unbearable in an RPG! If I play the Spider-man, immerse to his point of view, I actually need to have a roughly consistent idea of what my webs can do!
where less then 10% of people play... perfect "You can have what you want as long as it is so rare most of you will never see it at all and those of you that do will only have it a short time" that sounds like a great compramise...
I can only assume this is the same type of negotiating that got the federation to abandon stealth technology for like 200 years...
why do they get the 1/2 of the levels that MOST people play at?!? what makes THEM the most important? at least make a set of mundane and a set of extroudanary classes. put warlord/warbalde/swordage next to fighter then... let the player choose.
why does everyone on these threads want to cap ALL MARTIAL concepts as 'normal'
you can argue that... like I said I could see 3rd or 5th level... but beyond that NO!!! HARD NO!!! throwing fireballs and mist steppng isn't a ZERO... so NONE of the hero concepts should be forced into 'still a zero' mold.
as apposed to you start off being able to wave your hand and put people to sleep and in no time you can telport 30ft as a bonus action and in no time you can throw lighting or exploding balls of fire...
as much as everyone is sick of luther (since like 70% of his movies use him as the villian) I get where they are coming from (even if the execution needs some work)... Luther is a perfect foil... he is selfish and greedy and prideful. the exact opposite of clark being selfless giving and humble.
No. I have no interest in DMing 5e, homebrew or otherwise. Were I to actually run an edition of D&D, it would be 4e. (Or maybe, if you count it as "D&D," 13th Age.)
@GMforPowergamers you can just start the game at the tenth level if you want more mythic characters from the get go. That most games happen at lower levels is a strong indication that non-mythic is what most people prefer though.
