D&D General Travel In Medieval Europe

Oofta

Legend
The rule of thumb is around 3- 5 miles between farming hamlets and 10 miles between towns. Noting that for settled cities there might be 10 - 20 small hamlets and homesteads scattered around it

wilderness areas the gap between hamlets gets bigger but still 10 miles is rule of thumb for market towns, (some US towns stretch to 20 mile gaps)
That makes sense. At 3-5 miles you could even walk to the next village, stop in for a bit and still get back home by dark if need be.

People used to be far more active than we are now, they walked everywhere and were physically active practically from sunup to sundown. Of course, 2 miles straight up the side of a mountain carrying 5 gallons of water and the tent because your wife didn't realize it was all switchbacks may take a bit longer. Ah well, if you're ever in Big Bend National Park I still recommend backpacking into the Chisos mountains if you're able. Just watch out for the mountain lions. :)
 

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reelo

Hero
There weren't many real wizards running around in those times. Nor monsters. Nor personal appearances from gods.

Because in later times there were?

I'd argue that during the "Dark Ages" the world was actually more magical than during the Renaissance. Christianity and heathendom coexisted for a time, societies still lived closer to nature, superstition was common, and book-learned "sages" were rare(r).
 

Ixal

Hero
Except... that for the most part, D&D is multi-racial and magical. You don't need a ton of wood to make steel. You need a treaty with the local dwarfs (who mine coal), the elves (who magically maintain a section of forest to produce fast-growing wood, which they sell to others in order to keep their Soul Forests free from interference from loggers), or the gnomes (and use their weird magitech to tame magma or drill for oil). You don't actually need a lot of distantly-sourced chemicals to tan leather. Fish oils, butter, animal fats, animal brains, and plants with high levels of tannins can all be used. And in a world with nature magic, it could literally be a local nature priest's duties to go around to each farm (or, at least each farm in good standing with the church) and cast plant growth once a year (or perhaps a traveling bard casts it in exchange for room and board, or it's cast by a friendly druid).
You can't make steel with coal unless with very modern (post industrialization) techniques. And you assume a very industrious level of magic. Where are all the spellcasters trained (and people making good spellcasters are only a fraction of the population, meaning you need a lot of people to get enough spellcasters to cover all needs). Where do they get all their exotic spell components and implements without trade? How can the bard travel when it is so dangerous?
 



Faolyn

(she/her)
You can't make steel with coal unless with very modern (post industrialization) techniques.
Not really. Wikipedia indicates that--among others--the Chinese were mining and using coal for household purposes as early as 3490 BCE, and the Romans by 200 AD. Undoubtedly dwarfs (or gnomes, kobolds, or any of the other mining races in a typical D&D world), who are assumed to have histories dating thousands of years in most settings, could be this advanced or more so.

And you assume a very industrious level of magic. Where are all the spellcasters trained (and people making good spellcasters are only a fraction of the population, meaning you need a lot of people to get enough spellcasters to cover all needs). Where do they get all their exotic spell components and implements without trade? How can the bard travel when it is so dangerous?
I don't think I am. I mentioned plant growth (no material components). Admittedly, that's a 3rd-level spell. which limits the number of NPC casters who can cast it. But I would assume that the world works a bit different. You don't have to have priests and druids who are cloistered in their monasteries and temples and groves and never leave, just waiting for people to come to them. You could very well have traveling priests be the norm, making the rounds throughout a few towns over the course of the growing season. According to the math I looked up on internets, one casting of plant growth would affect 250 acres of land. Blame the internets if the math is wrong. But that's a lot of land that gets blessed with double-yields. Medieval farms weren't that big, and they could be even smaller if they were magically enhanced.

Also, what if it isn't a spell, but a magic item that allows for the casting of plant growth? Then even a trusted 1st-level--or even 0th-level--individual could be going around to the farms as part of their regular appointed duties? And, since this is D&D, there's always the possibility that an Archfey, nature god, or some other entity regularly blesses the land in exchange for worship and/or sacrifice (not necessarily of a living things).

At any rate, even if this excess of food doesn't cause a population explosion (it's fantasy, it might not), it would make the population as a whole healthier.

As for spell components, well, that's less of a problem than you think. First, there's spellcasting foci, so many casters aren't going to need eyes of beholder and tongue of bullywug on a regular basis. There's no in-game mechanical benefits to using the listed components over a foci, and it can be easily assumed that most NPC casters can afford one.

With very few exceptions, the spells that require components with a cost are actually not spells that are going to be used on a regular basis by NPCs. The only real exception I can think of is ceremony, but that's what tithes are for. Also, lot of those components with a cost are actually powdered gemstones or metals, so there's another reason for there to be an alliance with dwarfs. Most spellcasters aren't going to be casting plane shift or simulacrum or holy aura on a regular basis. Here the only exceptions I can think of are divinations, since oracles are thing, but the components needed for most of those spells are reusable and--for NPCs at least--could be antiques that have been handed down over the generations.

How can bards travel while it's dangerous? Well... possibly in groups and/or with a bodyguard, and likely on roads that are patrolled by the local law enforcement or the ruler's patrols. In Level Up, one of the ranger archetypes is Warden, which are designed to specifically be appointed wilderness protectors. Even without that archetype, in a monster-ridden world like D&Dland, it's likely that any ruler or rich landowner who can afford it will hire people to protect their property.

Does the path wend through a forest? Perhaps there's a unicorn or other good creature in that forest that prevents truly evil beings from settling in for long. It might not stop bandits, if those bandits stick to robbery and the rare, quick killing, but it'll stop bandits that engage in a lot of murder, torture, and slavery. There's plenty of other creatures like that in the monster books for any climate and terrain of your choosing. It could be very typical that a bard, or any other traveler, provide an offering when entering a new land in order to pay such inhuman creatures (fey, most likely) for their protection. I mean, people did this in real life. Why wouldn't they continue to do it in a D&D setting, where there actually are such potentially friendly creatures about? Even ignoring friendly monsters, you still have elves and other such races that live in the "wilderness" and would try to keep evildoers out.

And of course, being bards, they're certainly not defenseless. Even a 1st-level bard has some useful spells and fairly-decent combat ability.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
That seems a bit optimistic. As far as I know (and the general consensus in every hiking guide I've ever read and every hiking forum I've ever frequented), about 5 kilometres per hour is a comfortable pace for walking long distances over relatively easy terrain. About 3-4km per hour is usual as the going gets tougher.
Terrain. On a well maintained road, which the medieval European world had a decent number of, at least in formerly Roman areas, a healthy fit adult can walk 5 mph comfortably. 4mph is taking it easy.

As I said, you have to factor terrain and weather in if you want to get distance per day from that.
 

Hussar

Legend
It absolutely is.

Firstly, more advanced technologies require a broader range of materials. They aren't all going to be available locally.

Secondly, new technologies emerge when people combine old ideas in a new way. the more ideas you are exposed to the faster your technology advances.

There are lots of real world examples of isolated communities having less technology, and zero examples of isolated communities having more advanced technology.
China? Egypt? Both of those were far more advanced than their neighbors for thousands of years.
 


Hussar

Legend
As Paul Farquhar already said, advanced technology (and with advanced I mean things like plate armor) requires a lot of materials not found all in the same place and you need trade to gather them together.

Without trade you can basically forget making bronze. Steel requires tons of wood which is quickly exhausted when not imported from elsewhere as the food requirements of cities means nearly all space around it is farmed. Making good leather required several chemicals and just look at what materials a wizard needs for all his spells.
If travel was dangerous next to nothing in the FR would work as it is described it would.

Thats the reason the entire Points of Light idea of 4E was nonsense. Instead what would work is Points of Darkness.
You keep repeating this and I keep giving you the same answer.

I totally agree. Next to nothing in the FR would work as it is described it would. These settings make absolutely zero sense.

Of course, this is what happens when the game of D&D rubs up against anything even approaching a logical approach to setting creation. D&D settings would be horrific places. So, we ignore all that and have our Ren Faire Settings that completely fall apart upon even casual examination.
 

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