D&D 5E What is Quality?

[delericho]

I was just thinking about how to make inspiration more noticeable. Maybe getting a chit with a very bright colored side and a dull colored side you flip. Something that really sticks out.

For face to face games, the easiest thing may be for the DM to hand over an extra d20 when it is awarded (preferably one in a nice, bright colour that is otherwise unused). When this is rolled, it gets handed back.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's where D&D is. Nobody outside of ultra-nerds and a micro-generation who has some familiarity with World of Darkness knows about other RPG. Even Pathfinder was basically only known to people who were existing D&D fans and thus ultra-nerds. Even when journalists mention other RPGs, they describe them with reference to D&D. I saw an example of this with Joss Whedon trying to explain how Firefly was inspired in part by what seems to be a Traveller campaign, but the journalist didn't even record what the RPG's name was, and just explained that it was a "sci-fi RPG" and referenced D&D to explain what an RPG was.

I will add that I didn't even start with D&D, it was the 5th RPG (3rd TTRPG) I played. When I went to play my first RIfts game my grandmother asked "Is that like dungeons and dragons?" when I went to my first larp many people there described it as "Like playing D&D with plumbing supply weapons"

by the time I TRIED D&D for the first time... by the time I cracked open the book to DM, I already knew most people used D&D and RPG interchangeably.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

A player forgetting to use inspiration is no different than a player forgetting to use a potion their character picked up two (or twenty) sessions ago. At some point, it is not the potion's fault.

 

[Oofta]

That rather contradicts your own point though. BvS made nearly $900M. Whatever you or your social circle thought of it, it made a ton of money. By your own reasoning, it is therefore a quality movie. Yet you say it is not.

As I said, branding still counts for a lot. But the DCU has never caught on like the MCU, several movies were put on hold or are being redone based on the relatively low performance. Movie money is insane by most measures, Avengers Endgame made 2.8 billion worldwide. Yes, it made a ton of money by standards of mere mortals, but in rankings of total box office take for superhero movies it's 18th.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

A player forgetting to use inspiration is no different than a player forgetting to use a potion their character picked up two (or twenty) sessions ago. At some point, it is not the potion's fault.

nope and I could fill 100 threads with stories of scrolls and/or potions being just as forgotten.

the thing is if I play in a game and the DM 'forgets' to give potions no body notices.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As I said, branding still counts for a lot. But the DCU has never caught on like the MCU, several movies were put on hold or are being redone based on the relatively low performance. Movie money is insane by most measures, Avengers Endgame made 2.8 billion worldwide. Yes, it made a ton of money by standards of mere mortals, but in rankings of total box office take for superhero movies it's 18th.

BVS comes in at #73 of all time...

I don't know how many movies get made per year and I can't tell you what year the first movie was made but I am going to bet that is still in the top 3% of all time movies... it beats out some of the starwars (and even some MCU) films...

so it is one of the top 3% of quality movies by your standards.

 

[Morrus]

But the DCU has never caught on like the MCU

Sure. Then if that's the standard, only MCU movies are of good quality. And as you note, if being #18 is not good enough to count, then there are at most only 17 good quality superhero movies out of well over a hundred.

(It's actually at #16, and made more money than 2002's Spider-Man, Thor Ragnarok, Iron Man, Batman Begins, Superman 78, Batman 89, and another 84 superhero movies -- all of which which presumably you consider to be of poor quality?)

All Time Worldwide Box Office for Super Hero Movies

This chart contains the top 100 Super Hero movies based on the cumulative worldwide box office.

www.the-numbers.com

Honestly, this argument ad populum is being stretched to its limits.

 

[payn]

A player forgetting to use inspiration is no different than a player forgetting to use a potion their character picked up two (or twenty) sessions ago. At some point, it is not the potion's fault.

Well, getting whacked and dropping in HP is a pretty good indicator that you can do something about it. Also, dont let GMs off the hook, they forget about it too.

 

[Oofta]

Yes and no. For something like a roleplaying game, which is more complex and pretty much of the mind, it's going to be very subjective and not much else. For something like a watch or other physical product, materials are an objective measure. We've all(I assume) experienced cheap public restroom toilet paper. And then the stuff you buy for your homes. The quality difference in the papers is measurable. Even among the different stuff you buy, there are different qualities of paper. Some people might prefer(subjective) lesser quality paper, but that doesn't make that paper higher quality. It just means that they like the lower quality stuff.

Casio vs. Rolex is like that. Casio's are not designed to last a lifetime like a Rolex is, but then few people probably want to wear one watch for their entire lives, so even though it's measurable that the average Casio lifespan is 10 years and the average Rolex is a lifetime, do you really need or want the higher quality lifetime of the Rolex? That's an opinion which will vary from person to person. Similarly, the quality of materials used to make the Rolex is objectively higher than the Casio, but whether that's better for you personally is going to be subjective. Even if I determine that the Casio is better for me personally, the quality of the Casio materials isn't going to suddenly become better than those in the Rolex based on that subjective opinion.

I think table top games (including board games) are in a different category than many products. However, something judged high quality is often based on what people have decided is high quality. For example people compare McDonalds to 5 star restaurants. Which I get, but then they make claims like 5 star restaurants are better for you. That's where I disagree - eating regularly at most 5 star restaurants would be incredibly unhealthy because in most cases their food is incredibly high in fat content. At least you can (or at least used to be able to) get a salad at McDonalds that wasn't 4,000 calories. Same with wine. Most people can't tell the difference between a bottle of wine that costs $20 vs one that costs $400. In fact in various studies, the $20 bottle comes out on top.

I do agree though, TTRPG quality after a certain point of competence is down to personal preference.

 

[Mort]

A player forgetting to use inspiration is no different than a player forgetting to use a potion their character picked up two (or twenty) sessions ago. At some point, it is not the potion's fault.

I've found the problem isn't a player forgetting to use inspiration. It's a DM forgetting to, or being too distracted to give it out. The ONLY times (in recent memory) I can remember a player getting it (when I've also been a player) is when that player did something extraordinary or was spotlight hogging and REALLY got the DMs attention. That's my issue with it.