D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[James Gasik]

Indeed. Though I'm very much on the fence about whether they should be classes, sub-classes, or some mix.

(Also, I do find myself starting to think the Fighter and the Rogue should be combined into a single Hero class that does both the martial stuff (in various flavours) and the skill stuff. But that's yet another discussion.)

I did something like that in a 3.5 game. I looked at the Ranger and said "if this guy can get spells and an incredible skills package, why can't the Fighter get more stuff?".

So I made an optional class called the "Skilled Fighter". Gave him a good Fort and Reflex save, and 6+Int skill points per level, on top of the usual stuff.

To my surprise, nobody played the class, even with these upgrades.

 

[delericho]

So I made an optional class called the "Skilled Fighter". Gave him a good Fort and Reflex save, and 6+Int skill points per level, on top of the usual stuff.

To my surprise, nobody played the class, even with these upgrades.

Did people play the regular Fighter? (Also, did you ever try just giving the regular Fighter these same things as freebies?)

 

[James Gasik]

Did people play the regular Fighter? (Also, did you ever try just giving the regular Fighter these same things as freebies?)

Well that's basically what I did, I replaced the Fighter. As I recall, everyone in that game was happier playing classes from the Tome of Battle if they were weapon combat users, with the exception of the Cleric. Oh and the Druid, but they didn't do much other than be an animal 90% of the time.

 

[Minigiant]

On the other hand, to be fair, that goes both ways. The Fighter's paradigm worked very well for many years, because there wasn't much to compare it to.

Actually no.

The fighter worked because everyone ran long dungeons in 6-10 hour sessions back in the day. The issues arrived when people started to do other things.

The fighter (and monk and warlock and barbarian and ranger and artificer) of 5e isn't designed for short adventuring days. Because they can't burn their resources faces.

The "PB uses per LR" thing that WOTC is populaizing is a trick to allow these classes to nova for groups that ony have 2-3 hour sessions.

 

[James Gasik]

Actually no.

The fighter worked because everyone ran long dungeons in 6-10 hour sessions back in the day. The issues arrived when people started to do other things.

The fighter (and monk and warlock and barbarian and ranger and artificer) of 5e isn't designed for short adventuring days. Because they can't burn their resources faces.

The "PB uses per LR" thing that WOTC is populaizing is a trick to allow these classes to nova for groups that ony have 2-3 hour sessions.

Gonna have to stop you there for a second. Who was running these long dungeons? I never played in any. After a few fights, everyone was fuming on hit points and the Cleric was out of spells, so unless you wanted to bust out the emergency potions, it was time to go nap.

 

[Oofta]

Again, I have never seen a new player happy to be forced to play the 'simple' class.

I have. I've also played a champion fighter and had fun. No one size fits all. I also enjoyed my arcane trickster and thought it worked well.

 

[Undrave]

Remember that player that I said should be playing a champion fighter? He plays a battle master. I think he's used his superiority dice 2-3 times. They're level 15 now.

That's not to say he's a bad player, I enjoy having him at the table. But he just doesn't remember to use them. Heck, I remind him now and then to use his action surge.

Some people just need simple.

I still need to work out a second level feature (hesitating between two right now) , but I got something simple for your guy. The Prodigy! No ressources to track, just big numbers to put down on your sheet and a few things to pick.

 

[Minigiant]

Gonna have to stop you there for a second. Who was running these long dungeons? I never played in any. After a few fights, everyone was fuming on hit points and the Cleric was out of spells, so unless you wanted to bust out the emergency potions, it was time to go nap.

According to their tales, people didn't fight a lot in those dungeons. And they didn't have many resources. So the gap between clsses ofdifferent rest schedules and the amount of resource spending didn't matter.

But the number of resources went up, the day got shorter, and the power of rests went up.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The Long Rest mechanic makes sense in the context of old school 'the point of the game is to avoid engaging in the game' styles because it works as a stick against... engaging in the game. If you try something, you have less and less ability to deal when you're forced to try something.

 

[Minigiant]

I have. I've also played a champion fighter and had fun. No one size fits all. I also enjoyed my arcane trickster and thought it worked well.

Would you be opposed to having a simple at-will warrior class (Champion), a complex short rest warrior class (Battlemaster/Warblade), and a moderately complex long rest warrior class (Barbarian/Berserker) in 5.5e?

6e D&D?