D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Oofta]

Though the Ferengi did not turn out to be threatening force originally envisioned in TNG (though the Marauder almost kicked the D's ass) they turned out to be a pretty interesting culture by the end of DS9. I rather enjoyed the Ferengi inclusion in Trek in the post TNG timeline.

As for why people hate Gnomes? I have gnome idea.

Yeah, eventually in DS9 they did a decent job of giving them an identity. Hope springs eternal that we get something for gnomes someday. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

 

[The Scythian]

When I started playing D&D back in the 1980s, gnomes were monsters: they were listed in the Monsters section of the red box rulebook, and they were described as greedy, pointy-nosed dwarves that only cared about money. So that was my first, and lasting impression of gnomes...long before there was a such thing as a 'tinker' or an 'artificer.' Gnomes were cannon-fodder, moneygrubbing little dwarves that only wanted to rob or cheat you.

That's not accurate to how gnomes are presented in the Basic Set at all.

First of all, just because something is in the monster section doesn't mean that it's intended to be a "cannon-fodder" monster to be defeated. Dwarves, elves, halflings, normal humans, mules, and traders are in there too.

Second, gnomes are listed as Lawful or Neutral, so the idea that they're out to cheat and rob people doesn't really fit. Their entry says that they love gold and gems and that they "have been known to make bad decisions just to obtain them." While it's true that stealing and cheating are probably bad decisions, phrasing things that way would be a really roundabout way to communicate that they thieve and cheat. A couple of sentences after that, Moldvay writes that goblins and kobolds attempt to steal gold from the gnomes, and in the gnoll entry right before the gnome one, he writes that those monsters "bully and steal for a living." If Moldvay had intended gnomes to be bad guys like you're suggesting, he would have said that.

What's being communicated is that gnomes don't think clearly when they have the chance to acquire gold and gems, specifically. They might agree to an unfavorable deal, make a wager without considering the odds, or something similar. (This is supported by the gnome entry in the Rules Cyclopedia, which changes the sentence to read, "They love gold and gems and have been known to take foolish risks just to obtain them.")

Finally, the Basic Set introduced the idea of the tinker-type gnome in D&D, as Moldvay notes that gnomes "love machinery of all kinds," so it wasn't long before the existence of that archetype. It was as that archetype was introduced.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Gnomes have minimal to nonexistent representation in basically all widely-known myth and folklore.

This isn't true at all. Gnomes have a lot of representation in widely known myth, folklore, and stories. The problem is that D&D gnomes aren't mythological or folkloric gnomes at all. D&D gnomes are neither more nor less than a type of halfling and there is nothing they do that couldn't be done as a type of halfling. Forest gnomes in particular are nothing but hobbits who don't live in the Shire while rock/tinker gnomes are watered down Tinker Gnomes - a not particularly funny D&D joke that's inspired Warcraft.

Gnomes are a part of the fair folk and, as originally conceived by Paracellus, were tiny elementals. Or, if we want to go for the pop-culture version then we can look at the De-Gnoming in Harry Potter. Or knockers/tommyknockers that infest mines, again in folklore - but again two feet tall or less and very much earth-aspected. (And in nineteenth century contrasted with air-fairies). Meanwhile Pratchett's gnomes are six inches tall - and a chip on many peoples' shoulders. But even if gnomes have been there from early on the humanoid earth aspected race is dwarves and the small stealthy race is halflings. Meaning that gnomes aren't left with very much.

I'm an advocate for making gnomes as they currently exist into a subspecies of halfling because that's what they currently are, and then allowing for a more folklorish gnome that's tiny and non-flying if such turns out to be workable within the realm of D&D. (I'd also give them a climb speed because their power to weight ratio is absurd, their mass means they don't break things, and they need to climb a lot).

 

[Alexi Lyonhart]

I really liked 4e's take, where they were paranoid doomsday preppers with secret police who were always hunting for slavers.

 

[MGibster]

Remember when gnomes were relegated to the monster manual and they had minions?

 

[Mecheon]

Can you imagine two gnomes with very different personalities?

I got a few gnomes, y'know!

Let's see now there's...

Wrenchester, the PTSD-suffering assassin who gets involved in stuff to avoid thinking about the past and his situation. Likes ravens. Also enjoys pranks, but 90% of the time they're just excuses for him to show how stealthy he is. Also has a hobby of making machines. Tiny machines. Tiny machines to replicate life as closely as possible. Some call them 'toys', sure, but others, art and a way to re-look at life and nature
... why've I forgotten my gnome druid's name. Regardless he's just an old man who's not afraid to get involved with darker stuff, probably's done a few questionable substances in his time, had to help a bunch of younger gnomes, spent most of the time complaining about his aching back and saying he'd better not be in hell because his wife's gonna be very annoyed with him
Midicey, who's into music and the use of techniques to make her music far more showy. Unfortunately she also has good ol' imposter syndrome so has literately created a secondary public persona to resolve all that and will not let anyone remotely near her actual self

'm an advocate for making gnomes as they currently exist into a subspecies of halfling because that's what they currently are

Frankly I'd eat halflings up before gnomes. Halflings don't talk to small animals or live in mushroom houses, but that's gnomish stuff. The gnomish subraces have differences between them, whereas the halfling ones are just stat differences at most to the point they're basically half-elf and half-dwarf, halfling edition. We want to consume the more unique race and put it in that why? We literately could just throw out two whole ones and just make a single 'Halfling' race, plus why are Ghostwise halflings even halflings? They're gnomes. Small fey creatures talking to animals? How is that not fey?

Didn't we have a thread with exactly the same title half a year ago?

We're probably due for another Warlord thread soon, we haven't had one in a while...

 

[Guest 7034872]

Serious question, as I've seen a ton of people online that play D&D make jokes about Gnomes or say how much they hate them. More than Kender, actually.

So . . . what is it about Gnomes that makes people hate them so much? Or such easy targets for jokes online?

Huh.

That's totally weird to me: gnomes are almost my favorite race to play. I have an absolute blast with them.

Idunno, maybe folks just feel generically salty these days and want something to pick on and be sarcastic about?? That's my only guess.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Idunno, maybe folks just feel generically salty these days and want something to pick on and be sarcastic about?? That's my only guess.

And in your heart
You know it to be true
You know what you got to do
The gnomes depend on you

And you already know
Yeah, you already know how this will end
There is no escape from the half orcs's songs
For all of the loved ones gone
Forever's not so long

And in your soul
They poked a million holes
But you never let them show
Come on, it's time to gnome

And you already know
Yeah, you already know how this will end

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Frankly I'd eat halflings up before gnomes. Halflings don't talk to small animals or live in mushroom houses, but that's gnomish stuff. The gnomish subraces have differences between them, whereas the halfling ones are just stat differences at most to the point they're basically half-elf and half-dwarf, halfling edition. We want to consume the more unique race and put it in that why? We literately could just throw out two whole ones and just make a single 'Halfling' race, plus why are Ghostwise halflings even halflings? They're gnomes. Small fey creatures talking to animals? How is that not fey?

Yeah. I understand that Halflings have to be in D&D because of Tradition and Tolkien, but Gnomes have a far more interesting niche than Halflings. Halflings are just short humans with a few minor kender mechanics bolted on. Gnomes are the non-Tolkienesque folklore elves/dwarves. They're helpful fey spirits that tinker and dabble in magic.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Yeah. I understand that Halflings have to be in D&D because of Tradition and Tolkien, but Gnomes have a far more interesting niche than Gnomes. Halflings are just short humans with a few minor kender mechanics bolted on. Gnomes are the non-Tolkienesque folklore elves/dwarves. They're helpful fey spirits that tinker and dabble in magic.

...and play a lot more practical jokes than wisdom would dictate.