D&D 5E "The so-called '5-Minute Workday' is Something I've Seen Regularly Playing 5E D&D" (a poll)

[Ruin Explorer]

In 5E? No, not regularly, at least if we require intentionality, rather than there just happening to be one encounter before the long rest. I think it's right to require intentionality, because an accidental 5-minute-workday is very different from an intentional one in terms of how people use resources. The huge differences in the way buffing works also mean it's less optimal.

In 5E the problem tends to be more the conflict between the natural 2-4 encounters/day of D&D through the ages with 5E's desire for it to be 6-8 encounters.

In 4E it was even less of an issue than 5E. In 3.XE/PF1, that's where it was a big issue.

 

[overgeeked]

Wat. RAW allows only one long rest in a 24 hour period. So it's only possible to happen all the time if you're running RAW games with no time pressure at all.

Or…as I said in other posts…the players ignore any and all time pressure.

 

[CleverNickName]

That's not that odd if you take it from a narrative perspective.

From a narrative perspective, there might very well be a lot of abilities you "know" or are "aware of" or "practicing"... but which you've never actually used in a "real fight". If you're a 1st level roguish character, the fact that you haven't been able to disengage from a fight immediately after making a stab with your dagger... is that because you don't even know that Cunning Action even exists as a thing and won't know it until you reach 2nd level (at which time the ability just pops into your head)... or is it you conceptually understand how to do it and you have the idea of the Cunning Action in the back of your mind, you just haven't figured out the proper way and time to do it yet? And it's not until perhaps your third fight (after you spent your first two fights levelling up to 2nd level) that all of a sudden the proper time to use it shows up and thus you the idea of how to stab and then disengage immediately kicks in because the narrative of the situation now allows for it?

The way I've always seen it... just because you don't mechanically have an ability yet doesn't mean the character is completely unaware of what they could or will be capable of. It's just a matter of time in the world for the PC to "figure out" how to do it, which just happens to correspond to the time out-of-game when the character has levelled to the point where the mechanic now can be used.

My most recent character is a wizard who fell on hard times after the war (we are playing Eberron). He was once a powerful mage for House Cannith, but when his ship was destroyed and his crew lost, he began abusing drugs to cope with the anguish. Gradually the drugs took everything from him...his memory, his magical ability, his family, his home, even his spellbook (which he sold for drugs). Eventually he turned to crime to support his drug habit, and that's how he ended up in prison for 2 years.

His story began with him being released from Sharn City Jail. He's clean, but he remembers very little of his old life--just a couple of cantrips and a few first-level spells. He found work in town, and one day he heard a rumor that his wife and daughter were still alive and in danger...so he bought a blank spellbook and an arcane focus, and set out to find them.

As he gains levels, he doesn't suddenly learn new stuff out of nowhere--he remembers stuff that he had forgotten. He remembers old spell formulas that he used to cast, he remembers the unique abilities of his former School of Abjuration, he remembers his owl familiar.

 

[Mort]

In 5E the problem tends to be more the conflict between the natural 2-4 encounters/day of D&D through the ages with 5E's desire for it to be 6-8 encounters.

Have you taken a look at this thread?

Apparently 3-4 encounters was supposed to be the #, but the encounter difficulties got shifted around at the last minute and it turned into 6-8 instead.

Though if you shift the difficulty, it's actually pretty easy to go right back to 3-4 - it's just not explained or obvious, especially to new players.

 

[Mannahnin]

Or…as I said in other posts…the players ignore any and all time pressure.

No one I play with would be willing to accept "losing" their adventures/missions/quests constantly.

The player behavior you describe is just incredible to me. It comes off like they're all interpreting your "this is going to be hard, guys" campaign pitches as meaning "therefore, you need to play as cautiously as possible."

 

[Mistwell]

I've never seen the five minute work day in 5e and all four DMs I've regularly been involved with (one of which is me) would arrange for the party to have their rests interrupted quite a lot if any party tried to do it. We all use wandering monsters on some level. We all replenish locations with challenges if the party leaves that location for an extended time.

If a party puts down a Tiny Hut in the middle of the day not too long after their last long rest, that hut will eventually be surrounded by wandering monsters and when it ends (and it will end before a long rest, because you can only long rest once every 24 hours) the party will have a hard challenge on their hands.

I think our average number of encounters per day is around 4. But we recently had around 12. Which was a very rough day, and we were out of resources by the last battle and using scrolls and potions and such just to survive.

 

[jgsugden]

That's just so weird to me. Like, within the span of 24 hours I level up and unlock all these abilities, and then 24 hours later I have a subclass??

Most of D&D gets weird if you think about it... and you're assuming that the Level 1 and Level 2 adventures take place back to back. You might have several days between adventures.

Still, I ran a game in which PCs leveled from 1 to 20 in less than three months. It was essentially a 100% Dungeon Delve Mega Dungeon and they had no real option to take a break as there were several 'Swords of Damocles' hanging over their head that gave them incentives to resolve issues expediently.

In my setting, I actually do have an answer for this capability to rise in ability. When the Raven Queen ascended to Godhood, she killed a Dwarven God of Death and shattered his power and sent it out into the world. Beings across the plains, mostly humanoids, were touched by these shards and became 'God Touched'. She then grew into her Godhood through other/related means...

The benefit of being Godtouched? You get to advance like a D&D character does and you get to make death saves as the PHB describes it. If you're not God Touched, going from level 1 to 5 might take a typical human a lifetime of work and devotion. The most dedicated humans that are not God Touched might take 100 years to reach level 7 as a wizard. Elves and Dwarves might reach level 9 or 10 over their several centuries if not God Touched. However, a God Touched might get to level 10 in a very active month.

Fortunately for story purposes, God Touched tend to be drawn together, both as allies and enemies...

 

[Jer]

Though if you shift the difficulty, it's actually pretty easy to go right back to 3-4 - it's just not explained or obvious, especially to new players.

This is actually what I do, though I do it by doubling the expected XP budget for a Medium encounter instead of using a Hard encounter. But 2-4 combat encounters per rest fits our group's actual play at the table desires more than 6-8 (even 6-8 total encounters would likely be pushing things with the way we play, let alone if they were all combat) and my players generally like their combats to be setpiece battles rather than little fights.

 

[Mistwell]

There is only so many time you can do this before rest interruption becomes more unrealistic than the 5MWD.

Because a band of adventurers won't be attacked by a serious threat every time they spend 8 hours in the wild. Because if that were true, they wouldn't be able to survive a "normal" workday.

That's why the 5 minute workday happens. To be realistic, the DM has to eventually not consistently interrupt the party's rest or use a timer.

I mean, it's not 8 hours right? "A character can’t benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period." So if you only adventure for, say, an hour, you have 23 hours to go before you can benefit from another long rest. And while 8 hours might not result in another encounter, 23 hours is likely to result in something right? It sure would result in something if they were travelling for 23 hours, wouldn't it?

 

[overgeeked]

No one I play with would be willing to accept "losing" their adventures/missions/quests constantly.

I’ve found that they prefer not losing, or even risking, their characters over completing their goals. If they can complete a goal with zero risk, they will. If they have to risk anything, they’d rather sit at home and do nothing.

The player behavior you describe is just incredible to me. It comes off like they're all interpreting your "this is going to be hard, guys" campaign pitches as meaning "therefore, you need to play as cautiously as possible."

Absolutely. Which is almost the opposite of what I want. To most 5E players, in my experience, their characters are more precious than gold. They refuse to risk them. To me characters are fictional constructs that can be moved, dropped, traded away, driven like it’s stolen, and discarded with ease. To me “this is challenging” means “don’t be too attached to your characters.” When I spotted that was a miscommunication I made that clear to the players. That did not go over well. One player literally gasped and a few quit.