D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Thomas Shey]

5e went too hard on the base using zero.
The issue wasn't magic items and feats but the number. People didn't want a base of PCs with 20 magic items and 5 feats at level 10.

So, not OD&D? (In regard to the magic items that is). While a lot of them might have been trivial, higher level characters could easily have that many (the fighter I had that I recall getting to highest level had a magic greatsword, magic armor, a magic bow, two magic rings, a magic girdle (giant strength of some stripe), a couple Ioun Stones, some kind of magic helmet, a pair of magic boots and a magic cloak. And since it's been 40 years I'm probably forgetting some of the things like Bags of Holding and the like.

 

[Minigiant]

The Monk is more of a support class than anything.
It should not be the main tank.
It should not be the main scout (unless build for it).
It is not usually the main damage dealer.
But it exactly where you put it. In the middle. There are a few classes like this. And that is good!
In a group of 6 peoples, some are bound to be support and specialists as this is exactly at this number (well, 5 actually) that you start to need generalist or specific tasks specialists. The specialist should not be gimping the party but should be able to contribute. And the monk is one of those.

But the ranger, rogue, barbarian, and even fighter do each of those roles and each combination of them better.

The monk is just the hybrid "frontline/scout/tank without equipment" that does the "fantasy" wrong. It's tanking, scouting, damage and fantasy all use the same resource and it lacks the other strong nonresource features (expertise, action as bonus action) other classes have.

 

[Minigiant]

So, not OD&D? (In regard to the magic items that is). While a lot of them might have been trivial, higher level characters could easily have that many (the fighter I had that I recall getting to highest level had a magic greatsword, magic armor, a magic bow, two magic rings, a magic girdle (giant strength of some stripe), a couple Ioun Stones, some kind of magic helmet, a pair of magic boots and a magic cloak. And since it's been 40 years I'm probably forgetting some of the things like Bags of Holding and the like.

I think the people would have preferred PCs having somewhere between 2-6 magic items on themselves before they passed down items to henchmen or started selling them.

5e appealed too hard to DMs would wanted to run "almost real world" games and made a magic-item-less base and gated feats to after 4th level.

One thing I hope for in 6e is either a 4-5 magic item nonscaling assumption and rules/advice for

• a 0 item assumption
• a 1-3 item assumption
• a 5-7 item assumption
• a 10+ item assumption
• a slow scaling assumption
• a fast scaling assumption
• a wider golfbag assumption
• a narrower role based assumption

 

[tetrasodium]

I think the people would have preferred PCs having somewhere between 2-6 magic items on themselves before they passed down items to henchmen or started selling them.

5e appealed too hard to DMs would wanted to run "almost real world" games and made a magic-item-less base and gated feats to after 4th level.

One thing I hope for in 6e is either a 4-5 magic item nonscaling assumption and rules/advice for

• a 0 item assumption
• a 1-3 item assumption
• a 5-7 item assumption
• a 10+ item assumption
• a slow scaling assumption
• a fast scaling assumption
• a wider golfbag assumption
• a narrower role based assumption

I hope to see differing pointbuy systems to accommodate them as well plus cantrips & tbh a lot of spells really need to be reworked so casters aren't effectively left sitting adjacent to the baseline once everyone else starts getting magic items.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I hope to see differing pointbuy systems to accommodate them as well plus cantrips & tbh a lot of spells really need to be reworked so casters aren't effectively left sitting adjacent to the baseline once everyone else starts getting magic items.

I think a middle default and then a "less" and a "more" variant in sidebars would work well, personally.

 

[Minigiant]

I hope to see differing pointbuy systems to accommodate them as well plus cantrips & tbh a lot of spells really need to be reworked so casters aren't effectively left sitting adjacent to the baseline once everyone else starts getting magic items.

I'd agree. My preference is a 4-5 item system assumption

1. Magic weapon or focus
2. Magic armor or shield
3. Magic cloak, amulet, or ring of AC, resistance, or saving throw
4. Magic glove, belt or, hat of +X
5. Assorted noncombat magic item

Then say if you hand out X more magic item per PC, increase the effective level for CR by Y. If you scale magic items with level, increase the effective level for CR by Z. etc etc.

 

[Maxperson]

You're not wrong, and yet, we hear this sort of thing about Monks more than most other classes.

There's a reason memes like this exist.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think a middle default and then a "less" and a "more" variant in sidebars would work well, personally.

I might be misunderstanding your point but different pointbuy budgets & rulesets allow differing budgets for the GM to fill with magic items.. It's not so simple that a sidebar alone can handle things. At the core D&D is math & there are now thirteen classes with umpteen archetypes between them but they don't all benefit to the same or even similar degrees by getting magic items & some of them barely benefit at all or can only really benefit in insane ways.

• a +N weapon or weapon that gives an extra damage die is going to benefit a barbarian or paladin more than a rogue & a level 11+ fighter more than all three. Things like DR used to allow some mitigation if that was to a problematic degree but DR is gone and those three classes are tuned with math pegged to the expectation that they will have zero magic items
• Meanwhile a wizard/sorcerer/some warlocks getting the same on a dagger won't benefit at all. They can get a wand but those come in varieties that improve spell attack/save DC & do nothing about damage but the nondamage group niche those casters can often occupy barely even factors in there. SR:Yes/no used to split glass cannon & utility/controller builds but spells aren't tagged with those & it's a nontrivial thing to expect a GM to bolt it on. It used to be that between less guaranteed recovery & vancian prep casters could get a lot of benefit from cheap disposable wands, but wands are self recharging now & the presence of cantrips makes giving them out a much more difficult thing for a GM to budget.
• Body slots used to allow a GM to force problematic items out of use by providing differently awesome things the player wants but can't without conflict... except body slots are gone & the PCs themselves are expected to remain at zero magic items so they are already over budget when they get the first with no real room to grow out of it needing other areas of improvement. iirc even 2e had them to some degree
• etc

The rules surrounding it need to be written understanding the problems and the rest of the system needs to be written so the GM is aided in adjusting it during a campaign expected to last longer than a one shot rather than thwarted

 

[DND_Reborn]

It's not so simple that a sidebar alone can handle things.

sidebars

Plural.

It would be baked in as variant options at each relevant point. I'm not sure how well it would work out, though.

 

[Minigiant]

There's a reason memes like this exist.

View attachment 257326

The funny thing is that in single player video roleplaying games, it's often the other way around.

The dev usually gives warriors OP weapons and armor. The monk acts as away to save money by being a 2nd tier warrior or scout who costs little money or noncompeting equipment. Money/Time is saved to equip/level some type of gish, hybird, or noble class. The monk becomes the key to cheese elsewhere.

And the casters struggle to keep up after a point due the different mechanics the dev programmed or cosign themselves becoming healbots, mobsweeps, and debuffers.