D&D (2024) Dungeons and Dragons future? Ray Winninger gives a nod to Mike Shea's proposed changes.

[Azzy]

Funny thing about cooking writing. What’s the number one complaint about cooking blogs? That you have to wade through paragraphs of crap just to get to the recipe at the bottom.

But this little back and forth about 4e is precisely why 5e was laid out the way it was. There was zero chance WotC could use any layout ideas from 4e. Just not going to happen.

So here we are eight years later and people complain about vague writing, poor organization and poor layout and wonder why it was done this way.

It’s not exactly a secret. Anything with 4e cooties was an absolute nope in 2014. In 2024, it’s only okay if you can sneak it in under the radar.

It's almost like there could be a middle ground between the extremes of 5e's lack of clarity in some regards and 4e's one or two sentences of flavor per power. Maybe something that doesn't sacrifice either entertaining prose nor rules clarity.

 

[darjr]

Yes, with the most reluctance I have ever seen from a publisher, with clear indicators that the author's creative work does not reflect the opinions of the publisher.

Btw, just to show that I think a lot of the drama is more than what is there, at least now post lawsuit and firings, Margaret retweeted a story about the new 5e Dragonlance.

 

[Scribe]

I never specified a D&D novel. I specified "a novel written by a master of entertainment". Read Discworld, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, or some other novel if you want to be entertained by a book. Going to a D&D book to be entertained, in my opinion, is a bit like going to a cookbook to be entertained. D&D books are cookbooks for the games, not novels meant to entertain you.

We are talking D&D, and people want to engage with it and it's settings beyond rules and the game.

Fiction, lore, art, how the crunch is presented, all of that matters.

We don't play out of the SRD, we gain inspiration, motivation, joy, aka entertainment, from how these books are put together.

 

[Aldarc]

We are talking D&D, and people want to engage with it and it's settings beyond rules and the game.

Fiction, lore, art, how the crunch is presented, all of that matters.

We don't play out of the SRD, we gain inspiration, motivation, joy, aka entertainment, from how these books are put together.

Sure, which is why I have a better idea of how to run a 4e game based on these things than I do with 5e based solely on its own presentation of these things. 4e was thematically TIGHT! in establishing how the power sources, classes, races, etc. all operated in the implied setting. You could pick up a monster and knew where it fit in the grand cosmological scheme as well as how to run it (i.e., roles).

 

[Medic]

Going to a D&D book to be entertained, in my opinion, is a bit like going to a cookbook to be entertained. D&D books are cookbooks for the games, not novels meant to entertain you.

Hold on now. Cookbooks have pleasant pictures to entice me to try the recipe, flavorful descriptions of what the dish tastes like, maybe even some context to help me better appreciate the cultural significance of a dish. Look at a regional cookbook, they even come with history lessons pertaining to the development of cuisine and the origins of staple ingredients.

The primary purpose may not be to entertain, but a recipe book worth its salt can capture and hold attention and even be a significantly better product for it.

 

[Scribe]

Sure, which is why I have a better idea of how to run a 4e game based on these things than I do with 5e based solely on its own presentation of these things. 4e was thematically TIGHT! in establishing how the power sources, classes, races, etc. all operated in the implied setting. You could pick up a monster and knew where it fit in the grand cosmological scheme as well as how to run it (i.e., roles).

And that is totally fine. People are drawn to different things, different styles.

I often think of MTG in this regard. Multiple ways to engage with the product that can have zero relation to playing the game.

Want to think about growth as a company? Not everyone may want to play a game, how do you get their dollar?

Well, maybe it's art, or story, or something about simply how the book is presented, maybe it's a collectable alt cover...

I know for a fact, there are people who collect 5e books, and have no interest to play.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Hold on now. Cookbooks have pleasant pictures to entice me to try the recipe,

So, art like in a D&D book.

flavorful descriptions of what the dish tastes like,

Flavor text like in a D&D book. I have no issue with that.

maybe even some context to help me better appreciate the cultural significance of a dish.

An explanation on how to use a specific option in D&D.

Look at a regional cookbook, they even come with history lessons pertaining to the development of cuisine and the origins of staple ingredients.

The primary purpose may not be to entertain, but a recipe book worth its salt can capture and hold attention and even be a significantly better product for it.

But, again, the main purpose of a cookbook is to give you recipes to make a meal, and the main purpose of a D&D book is to help you play the game.

 

[Greg Benage]

Seems like they plan to focus on the (quite large) audience that actually likes 5e. Very smart, very wise.

- Guy Who Likes 5e

 

[CapnZapp]

You joking?

The game is balanced around math, and according to that math the rogue does plenty of damage without using reactions for offense.

I made a claim "FWIW The Rogue class needs to get both its Sneak Attacks in nearly every round to be competitive DPR-wise."

You didn't just scroll past this. Instead you claimed I wasn't truthful. As evidence of this, you continued with "I’ve done the math" as if I'm know around here to just make claims without backup.

Then you explained your math: "and the rogue’s SA with 1 attack per round is equal to the value obtained by extrapolating a wizard’s spell slots"

But where did I even talk about Wizards?

Stop assuming a Rogue's capabilities should somehow be judged against wizards, or the hyperspecific "translated directly into single target damage over enough rounds to run the wizard out of slots."

That's cherrypicking to make a Rogue player feel good about his or her mediocricity, and it doesn't fly by me.

So no. I am not joking. Neither am I making "untrue" statements. You might not need a high DPR to feel good about your Rogue, but that's something else.

What I am saying is that if you aren't even aware you have the capacity for two SAs per round, you have an awakening coming. I compare it to a Fighter character that somehow have missed the GWM or SS feats (and how to properly use them).

 

[darjr]

SlyFlourish has a sunday twitch show where he records his podcasts and talks to listeners a bit. He has taken questions and this Sunday’s should be interesting!

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