Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[Ruin Explorer]

I agree, that is a problem. That's why I advocate for letting it go entirely and making a new "war" setting. If you really want to play 5e Dragonlance, the DL Nexus put out a wonderful free pdf, Tasslehoff's Pouches of Everything, that updates the rules.

Make a new setting, with WotC's current values, and I will consider giving them money. Mangle a classic setting because people will buy anything with the right name on it and you lose my money and my respect.

Yeah, this is a classic @Micah Sweet situation though if you'll forgive my saying so. You're not wrong, per se, and I sympathise (even if I don't necessarily agree), but you're clearly not aligned with what's actually going to make WotC money given 5E's current audience.

I mean, yes, this is naked use of a "brand". What's DL famous for among people? The War of the Lance. What would people new to DL want? The War of the Lance. But they'd also want an updated version because the 1980s version ain't gonna cut it. So we have this. Mangled or improved or kind of both depending on perspective.

It's a bit like Strange New Worlds essentially rebooting TOS (as Discovery singularly failed to then jumped into the future to get away from that). Will it be as successful as SNW? Impossible to know. Will it be able to hew as close to the OT/original WoL as SNW does to TOS? Definitely not, because TOS had the great advantage of being pretty forward-looking even for 1963, whereas the DL OT/original WoL was very slightly retrograde for the mid '80s (being mildly progressive for the 1970s, which it really feels like it where it hails from).

I am definitely unimpressed that we now have the 2022 and 2023 schedules and still the "entirely new setting" we were told about in 2021 has not materialized. Presumably it's dead, because Winninger hinted it might not survive, and that means WotC have quietly executed at least three entirely new settings designed for 5E, all fairly late in the design process (because Winninger said they'd already done that twice before). I am skeptical that all three can possibly have been "that bad".

Not fair to blame the original authors. It was dictated by TSR and either they were going to write it or someone else was. They made the best of a bad situation.

LOL.

It's definitely fair to blame them for basically setting fire to the setting and characters. I am confident "someone else" would not only have done a technically better job, but would have been considerably more respectful to the characters and setting than Hickman/Weis were, funnily enough - because "someone else" would have been scared to mess things up, whereas Hickman/Weis seem to have believed it was a case of "It's my setting and I can ruin it if I want to!".

They made the worst of a bad situation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Of course some view it as improving a classic setting. Clealy they are appealing to those people

They are appealing to people who will buy any pretty product with the right name on it. If you happen to like it that way, bonus! The rest doesn't matter to them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, this is a classic @Micah Sweet situation though if you'll forgive my saying so. You're not wrong, per se, and I sympathise (even if I don't necessarily agree), but you're clearly not aligned with what's actually going to make WotC money given 5E's current audience.

I mean, yes, this is naked use of a "brand". What's DL famous for among people? The War of the Lance. What would people new to DL want? The War of the Lance. But they'd also want an updated version because the 1980s version ain't gonna cut it. So we have this. Mangled or improved or kind of both depending on perspective.

It's a bit like Strange New Worlds essentially rebooting TOS (as Discovery singularly failed to then jumped into the future to get away from that). Will it be as successful as SNW? Impossible to know. Will it be able to hew as close to the OT/original WoL as SNW does to TOS? Definitely not, because TOS had the great advantage of being pretty forward-looking even for 1963, whereas the DL OT/original WoL was very slightly retrograde for the mid '80s (being mildly progressive for the 1970s, which it really feels like it where it hails from).

I am definitely unimpressed that we now have the 2022 and 2023 schedules and still the "entirely new setting" we were told about in 2021 has not materialized. Presumably it's dead, because Winninger hinted it might not survive, and that means WotC have quietly executed at least three entirely new settings designed for 5E, all fairly late in the design process (because Winninger said they'd already done that twice before). I am skeptical that all three can possibly have been "that bad".

LOL.

It's definitely fair to blame them for basically setting fire to the setting and characters. I am confident "someone else" would not only have done a technically better job, but would have been considerably more respectful to the characters and setting than Hickman/Weis were, funnily enough - because "someone else" would have been scared to mess things up, whereas Hickman/Weis seem to have believed it was a case of "It's my setting and I can ruin it if I want to!".

They made the worst of a bad situation.

You're correct, of course. I'm well out of step with both WotC's design strategy AND it's sales strategy. This is why they're not getting any more of my money.

And to what I suspect is your total lack of surprise, I love SNW in large part because it hews pretty close to TOS. That being said, it's also a great show in its own right.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They are appealing to people who will buy any pretty product with the right name on it. If you happen to like it that way, bonus! The rest doesn't matter to them.

I mean that definitely is part of the WotC approach to D&D these days (perhaps always to an extent), not unique to rebooted settings or the like. Making products that appeal to collectors and lifestylers. I do think that stuff like the changes they're making in the playtest shows they're still engaged with the game as a game, it's not yet (or hopefully ever) at the point where it's just a "brand". Slightly off-topic for this thread but I think things like the VTT, if popular, may actually push it back towards a game-first focus and a lifestyle/brand/collector focus second. Like, you don't get subscriptions from collectors, so much, and even lifestylers are more likely to be engaging with the physical product and not digital stuff, and the VTT won't appeal to people not actually playing/running the game for the most part.

And to what I suspect is your total lack of surprise, I love SNW in large part because it hews pretty close to TOS. That being said, it's also a great show in its own right.

Indeed it is - best Trek stuff I've seen since DS9 and probably the best "jumping on" point for people new to Trek since then too.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

They are appealing to people who will buy any pretty product with the right name on it. If you happen to like it that way, bonus! The rest doesn't matter to them.

Well that is just rude to people with a different viewpoint and taste than you

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

You're correct, of course. I'm well out of step with both WotC's design strategy AND it's sales strategy. This is why they're not getting any more of my money.

And to what I suspect is your total lack of surprise, I love SNW in large part because it hews pretty close to TOS. That being said, it's also a great show in its own right.

I’m a trek fan, but haven’t watched the shows in a while, what do TOS and SNW stand for?

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I’m a trek fan, but haven’t watched the shows in a while, what do TOS and SNW stand for?

"The Original Series" and "Strange New Worlds", I believe, though I admittedly haven't followed Star Trek in years.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

"The Original Series" and "Strange New Worlds", I believe, though I admittedly haven't followed Star Trek in years.

Ok, what is Strange New Worlds? Is that a new series? When is it set?

 

[Scribe]

yeah... I wonder if the Order will be hunting untested sorcerers warlocks and bards

They are going to have Lawful Good Black Robes....so no, I'd say Warlocks and Bards will be happily on their way.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Ok, what is Strange New Worlds? Is that a new series? When is it set?

With the caveat that I haven't actually watched it, I believe it's a new Star Trek series centering on Captain Pike - the guy who captained the Enterprise before Kirk.

Beyond that, couldn't say, personally. Not sure how it fits into the timeline(s?).