D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[Flamestrike]

I'd bet London to a Brick that those of you with 'Wizards are God' experiences at your tables (and I agree that there are a few of you out there, this thread pops up in one form or another every day or two) have one of the following things messing up your results (or both of them):

1) DM inexperienced with high level play
2) Not cleaving to the 6-8 encounter/ 2 -3 short rest Adventuring day median.

That's the cause of the problem. It's not an inherent feature of the Wizard.

 

[Umbran]

If I've harassed anyone or threadcrapped I apologize and should be reported.

Mod Note:
You have been reported several times at this point.

Please reconsider how you are engaging in this topic.

 

[Minigiant]

Exactly. A Wizard (or indeed any Long rest dependent class) will dominate in a 5MWD.

My adventure I propose is NOT a 5MWD. It will cleave to the DMG 6 or so encounters, 2 short rests, Adventuring day.

But people don't like only running long dungeons.

"I don't wanna be forced to run long dungeons"
"Well then we gotta trim the casters spells slots or force them to prepare directly into them or trim down their library"
"No. I like it with those restrictions off"
"Well you can't have Super Mages and Short Dungeons".
"Not even a little"
"If you want D&D to be balanced for short days where wizard actually get treasure before level 10, the casters will need a skeleton similar to the fight-"
"No no no. No!

 

[TheSword]

Not accidental… it’s incidental.

Any suitably complex system will have potential imbalances. A dozen+ classes, subclasses, races, spells, magic items and feats. Not to mention the imbalance a Dungeon Master provides, different genres, low magic, monty haul, gritty fantasy, high fantasy, Ravnica, Strixhaven, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft. Give me a break. It was never going to be perfectly balanced, there are too many moving parts.

That’s why we have DMs… because it’s not Cluedo or Game of Life. The DM curates the fun, because the rules alone can’t do it.

Perfect balance in quality RPG’s if a myth. Nonetheless, 5e gets as close as I have seen it.

 

[Flamestrike]

But people don't like only running long dungeons.

Use a rest variant.

5E is balanced around the 6-8 encounter, 2 short rest AD. If you stray from this baseline, and only ever have single encounter 5 minute work day AD's, and experience balance issues (namely from Long rest classes like the Wizard pwning Short rest classes like the Fighter, Warlock and Monk), that's not a feature of the Wizard class itself, it's down the DM straying from the baseline adventuring day guidelines.

So my point stands. The cause of the phenomena (and I agree it exists at some tables) is down to choices made by the DM and/or the group not sticking to the AD guidelines.

 

[HammerMan]

My adventure I propose is NOT a 5MWD. It will cleave to the DMG 6 or so encounters, 2 short rests, Adventuring day.

As much as I know I will regret this. How do you enforce how many short tests can be taken?

 

[Flamestrike]

As much as I know I will regret this. How do you enforce how many short tests can be taken?

Doom clocks, environmental constraints, reactive bad guys.

Occasionally telling off the players for attempting to game the rest mechanic, with a firm but gentle 'No'.

My players know not to try and game the system at my table though so the latter is rare.

 

[SakanaSensei]

But people don't like only running long dungeons.

"I don't wanna be forced to run long dungeons"
"Well then we gotta trim the casters spells slots or force them to prepare directly into them or trim down their library"
"No. I like it with those restrictions off"
"Well you can't have Super Mages and Short Dungeons".
"Not even a little"
"If you want D&D to be balanced for short days where wizard actually get treasure before level 10, the casters will need a skeleton similar to the fight-"
"No no no. No!

My fix has been lots of homebrew buffs to martials to give them at the very LEAST some solid contribution in fights. (Minions from MCDMs Flee, Mortals that lets weapon attacks cleave, a modified version of Mighty Deeds from DCC, a modified version of shock damage from WWN, etc.) Then, I need to run mostly huge battles where they make sense narratively, such that action economy is the bigger nozzle through which resources get restricted, because casters are straight never gonna run out of spell slots. Casters get to feel broken, martials get lots of consolation prizes.

Unfortunately, unless the new wave of fans gives a lot of feedback on this particular issue (and it is an issue, no matter how often people want to jam fingers in ears and lalala it out of existence) I don’t see anything changing.

 

[HammerMan]

(namely from Long rest classes like the Wizard pwning Short rest classes like the Fighter, Warlock and Monk),

Funny you mention warlock. In every thread I watch as it gets brought up as just as good as a full caster.

So my point stands. The cause of the phenomena (and I agree it exists at some tables) is down to choices made by the DM and/or the group not sticking to the AD guidelines.

 

[HammerMan]

Doom clocks, environmental constraints, reactive bad guys.

Okay then I’m out I was considering saying I would play but that kind of DM heavy handedness isn’t for me.