D&D (2024) Down Leveling spells, from the Expert Classes playtest.

[darjr]

One think I’d like to experiment with us upcasting cantrips.

Like mage hand to say, level 9 and you have that giant Start Trek hand crushing the Enterprise

 

[UngeheuerLich]

One think I’d like to experiment with us upcasting cantrips.

Like mage hand to say, level 9 and you have that giant Start Trek hand crushing the Enterprise

Actually, they might already have paved the way:
Cantrips are now officially level 0 spells and are prepared as other spells.

So lets see what is coming.

 

[Marandahir]

Actually, they might already have paved the way:
Cantrips are now officially level 0 spells and are prepared as other spells.

So lets see what is coming.

Might be related to how Clerics can either get bonuses to their cantrips or bonuses to their weapon attacks at a higher level. They might change that to "you can cast your cantrips as higher-level spells." I don't love that since it's got a cost associated with it that it didn't have before, but it might be an intentional cost to bring quadratic priests and mages more into parity with linear warriors and experts.

 

[Marandahir]

Now hear me out...

No spell levels. Every spell can be taken at 1st level. Because they are appropriate at 1st level. And then many (all?) spells can be up-leveled.

For example Wish at 1st level might not be permanent (duration 10 minutes), might only effect self or willing targets, etc etc.

Remove the concept of "Spell Level" entirely - it's freaking confusing any way and adds no value in my opinion. It's just an artifact of older editions of D&D.

Keep Spell Slot levels - although I wouldn't call them levels, I'd call them "power" or something that is not the word level. Spell Power slots.

This might (ok, will) make spell descriptions larger. But at the same time might make some Magic cooler...?

that all said - may not be "backwards compatible"....

Does not work. Why would you chose to stay single classed then?
Also it might be overwhelming at first level.
Also: what is a first level wish?
I wish you would please let me through?

I wouldn't necessarily rule this out as does not work. I just don't think it would be backwards compatible at all if it was implemented.

I think a lower level Wish would actually be interesting and get around the issues related to Genie Pact Warlocks providing a Limited version of Wish at lower levels. But I'm not sure I'd take it all the way to 1st level. That certainly would enable some elements of the fiction, but usually the fiction of Wish is that you're making it to some being that can grant them within its power, so having Wish from 1st to wish from your own power is odd, to say the least.

 

[Minigiant]

There is another thing.

You don't want Upcasting and Downcasting to be that good.

If it is, it allows casts to prepare fewer spells of similar effects and have more effects available to be prepared. It would be a massive boost in versatility.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

One think I’d like to experiment with us upcasting cantrips.

Like mage hand to say, level 9 and you have that giant Start Trek hand crushing the Enterprise

You're kinda reinventing the Mystic class. They had "cantrips" that they could activate and they'd have greater affects based on the amount of "Psi Points" they expend.

Don't get me wrong, I think that design is great and that 5e Spellcasting would benefit from being more similar to that, but I think that's too big of a change for OneD&D.

 

[Marandahir]

You're kinda reinventing the Mystic class. They had "cantrips" that they could activate and they'd have greater affects based on the amount of "Psi Points" they expend.

Don't get me wrong, I think that design is great and that 5e Spellcasting would benefit from being more similar to that, but I think that's too big of a change for OneD&D.

I mean, that was what the 4e Psionic classes (minus the Monk) could do, too.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Does not work. Why would you chose to stay single classed then?
Also it might be overwhelming at first level.
Also: what is a first level wish?
I wish you would please let me through?

Not sure what multi-classing has to do with spell levels. You can still if you want have limited spell lists - ie Wizards can only cast these spells, Clerics these spells etc.

Sure - you can limit wish in many different dimensions. Time, space, quantity etc etc. Seems pretty clear to me. And yes, "I wish you would please let me through" could be a 1st level wish (or maybe 2nd level, or 3rd - since it affects someone else - if that's one of the dimensions decided to limit).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Not sure what multi-classing has to do with spell levels. You can still if you want have limited spell lists - ie Wizards can only cast these spells, Clerics these spells etc.

Because of this. If you get all spells at level 1, be cleric 1, wizard 1 and then level anything up and cast every wizard an cleric spell as you wish. If there is no entry level like level 5 wizard for fireball, be wizard 1 and cleric 4 and happily throw 1 fireball after the other at spell level 3 potency.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

There is another thing.

You don't want Upcasting and Downcasting to be that good.

If it is, it allows casts to prepare fewer spells of similar effects and have more effects available to be prepared. It would be a massive boost in versatility.

With the new preperation rules I think the versality boost is not that great. But yes, you need to find the right balance. If fireball does as much damage at level 1 as burning hands, I'd say it is OK. If it does a little more at level 2, it is ok.

If it stays a special for some classes, you can be a bit more creative. I think for the sorcerer it could be quite cool if the penalty to damage dice would be lower than for wizards. Could be a metamagic option.