D&D (2024) The new playtest Exhaustion rules has already fixed the exploration pillar a lot.

[Justice and Rule]

I greatly prefer the more specific effects of the various levels of exhaustion over a boring blanket numerical pentalty. For much the same reason that I prefer magic items that have unique effects over generic +X magic items, and the same reason I prefer gaining new abilities on level up over simply increasing HP and proficiency bonus. Numbers are the least interesting part of an RPG to me, so any mechanic that is expressed solely through a numerical modifier is inherently less interesting to me than one that is expressed through exceptions-based rules. Furthermore, I think the harshness of the exhaustion penalties was a feature, not a bug. There’s value in having status conditions with real teeth, as that gives them more power to create strong gameplay incentives. Classic exhaustion is one of very few things other than straight-up character death that could meaningfully threaten PCs of any level in 5e.

I feel like there has to be a middle ground between evocative but too mechanically harsh to be used often, while easier mechanically while lacking flavor.

 

[Charlaquin]

I feel like there has to be a middle ground between evocative but too mechanically harsh to be used often, while easier mechanically while lacking flavor.

I think the classic exhaustion is just the right amount of harsh, personally. But I guess I’d rather a nerfed version of it than the version that’s in the UA.

 

[Alby87]

This new exhaustion can help a lot fine tuning the exploration pillar mechanics: for example, not eating for a day is two level of exhaustion up, but eating a goodberry could raise exhaustion by only one (thus eating and foraging classic food is still a need but not as urget as before, or totally useless if a Goodberry user is in the party).

Slepping in a safe and confortable place like a inn, PC's home, guest of a friend can relieve you of 2 or more exhaustion level. Resting inside the wilderness or a cleared dungeon level (every time your party has to set a watch, even if you don't take your turn) can let you lose only 1 of those level. Sleeping inside Leomund's Tiny Hut can also be a relieve only 1 level, to nerf a little a really good spell.

And (but this something I just came up, if there is a blatant error, please ignore), when waking up, spellcaster can have spell slots used by exhaustion, starting from the top ones, with a conversion like 2 levels - 1 slot. So parties with spellcaster will try to be as rested as possible, and long trekking in the wilderness without a good plan can be dangerous again at very low level, a challenge at tier 2 and so on.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Furthermore, I think the harshness of the exhaustion penalties was a feature, not a bug. There’s value in having status conditions with real teeth, as that gives them more power to create strong gameplay incentives. Classic exhaustion is one of very few things other than straight-up character death that could meaningfully threaten PCs of any level in 5e.

I also like the flavor and harshness of the 5e system in the right context. As a punishing status effect to inflict on characters it works pretty well and is evocative. I wish it was used more. Dropping to O HP should involve taking d4 levels of exhaustion or whatever.

As something players knowingly and willingly risk taking levels of it has mostly been a failure, because they are willing to do things that cause or risk exactly one level of exhaustion (if the payoff is very high), possibly 1 or 2 more in an actual emergency, and that's it. And the designers mostly recognized this early on and designed very few abilities that willingly self inflicted exhaustion.

And, while I find it evocatively fun for a few minutes of gameplay, the nature of getting rid of it means that a character who takes multiple levels at an inopportune point in the adventure might have a multi-session slog of being pretty boring to play, which is probably why, as a mechanic, it barely gets used in official materials.

 

[Horwath]

I like the UA part. but also it needs gradual speed penalty and AC penalty with d20 roll penalty and DC penalty.

 

[Li Shenron]

Mah, for me exhaustion rules are useful only if they're interesting and that means if the effects are a big deal at once. If I have to keep track of fiddly -1s, I am simply not going to use exhaustion rules.

I'd rather even have less than the current 5 levels of exhaustion before death, maybe 2 levels called "exhausted" and "severly exausted" would be enough.

 

[Maxperson]

What are your thoughts?

I regularly use exhaustion without it becoming a death spiral. Levels 1 and 2 are actually pretty common, level 3 is uncommon and one PC has hit level 4. I personally see the new exhaustion as weakening a decent tool.

 

[Maxperson]

I agree with the concept of the old exhaustion but not the method, because it was too harsh too quickly to where players do not wish to engage with it or take the risk of it ever after a single level of it. It needs to be on a longer stage list, especially for how things in 5e were very hourly.

The vast majority of the time it's not up to the players when it happens. As for not taking the risk after level 1, that's one of the best parts of it. It has real teeth and players have to think hard about pushing forward, except sometimes they have to or risk failure in what they are trying to achieve. Do they take the risk of exhaustion, or do they take the risk of failure? That's a real choice.

I've seen my players choose both options, depending on the situation and party goals.

 

[Horwath]

Problem with current exhaustion is that it is unfair to certain character concepts.

Most fighters and spellcasters will not take notice at level one exhaustion while a skill monkey build like scout is so hammered that their only smart solution is going to bed and sleeping it off.
And it's not that skill monkeys are most overpowered thing in D&D

-1 to everything affects all concepts mostly the same, unless you are a heal-bot, but that is probably the weakest build in the game, so I guess that is OK.

 

[Maxperson]

Problem with current exhaustion is that it is unfair to certain character concepts.

Most fighters and spellcasters will not take notice at level one exhaustion while a skill monkey build like scout is so hammered that their only smart solution is going to bed and sleeping it off.
And it's not that skill monkeys are most overpowered thing in D&D

That's not my experience, but then I use knowledge checks pretty liberally, and everyone feels the hit to perception, investigation and stealth. In fact the skill monkeys with their expertise handle exhaustion the best. Disadvantage means less when you have higher bonuses.