D&D 5E Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?

[Paul Farquhar]

Given its prominence and centrality, wouldn't it be better to accept that that is a purpose it is going to be used for and thus write it accordingly, rather than doggedly insisting that it wasn't meant for that despite the name?

No, because it is far too big. Better to rename it The Content Creators Handbook, which is what it actually is. And (as they are doing) provide guidance for new DMs in the starter set, supplemented by online material.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I mean it’s not called NDMG. “New Dungeon Masters Guide”.

What other name would be better for a book about DMing topics?

Most of the DMG isn't about DMing topics. It's about content creation.

 

[FrogReaver]

The issue, from my point of view, is that (B) is so implausible it's hard to take it seriously. Is there any other field of instruction in which examples aren't useful? There are certainly many other RPGs where examples are useful. Why would D&D be so atypical?

Do you see how you immediately jumped to the bolded:

A) I think more examples on this topic would be great.
B) I don't think examples on that topic would very useful.
A) So you don't think examples are useful!
B) So you think everything needs an example!

Let’s not repeat this.

 

[FrogReaver]

Most of the DMG isn't about DMing topics. It's about content creation.

Isn’t content creation a DMing topic?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

No, because it is far too big. Better to rename it The Content Creators Handbook, which is what it actually is. And (as they are doing) provide guidance for new DMs in the starter set, supplemented by online material.

Okay so...

Why not make a "Content Creator's Handbook," as a separate thing for DMs looking to expand their horizons...

And then instead of publishing this "CCH" as one of the three core books, publish it a month or two after the core books, which can include a Player's Handbook (which contains all the rules and guidance needed on the purely player-facing side to prepare for playing the game), a Monster Manual (which contains all the rules and guidance needed to make use of creatures in the game), and a Dungeon Master's Guide (which would contain all the rules and guidance needed to act as a Dungeon Master)...?

Your argument seems to be strengthened by abandoning the "that's not what the DMG is for" stance, and instead switching to "okay, that can be what the DMG is for, and it gets followed up by a Content Creator's Handbook later on for folks that want to tinker."

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Isn’t content creation a DMing topic?

No. You do not need to create content to be the DM. There is plenty of content available. DMing is about running the game. That's quite enough for new players to take in.

Once they are no longer newbies they can, if they like, start to learn how to create content, but it is not an essential skill for a DM.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Do you see how you immediately jumped to the bolded:

Let’s not repeat this.

Well it would help if that wasn't literally what was being said.

We are straight-up being told "that's not what the book is for." As in, it would not be useful to add it to this book, because however useful examples might be, they don't belong in the book that claims to guide dungeon masters.

So yes. I completely believe that we are being told that examples are not useful. And while I don't think absolutely everything ever needs an example, I certainly think new DMs need such things, and that the book purporting to be the guide for dungeon masters should have lots and lots of them.

I think the DMG should actually live up to its name. Because that's kind of really REALLY important for getting more DMs, which are absolutely essential for growth in the hobby!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And then instead of publishing this "CCH" as one of the three core books, publish it a month or two after the core books, which can include a Player's Handbook (which contains all the rules and guidance needed on the purely player-facing side to prepare for playing the game), a Monster Manual (which contains all the rules and guidance needed to make use of creatures in the game), and a Dungeon Master's Guide (which would contain all the rules and guidance needed to act as a Dungeon Master)...?

That's what they do. It's called the starter set. Which needs to include DMing instruction, since you can't play it without someone being the DM.

The point is, if your rules are longer than a 32 page booklet you have already lost a large number of potential players. You need to be telling people they don't need to memorise 320 pages of rules in order to be a DM if you want to expand the hobby.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That's what they do. It's called the starter set. Which needs to include DMing instruction, since you can't play it without someone being the DM.

.....

No, they don't.

They publish the DMG. Which doesn't actually guide DMs.

And then they charge you $20 to actually get instructions. In something that doesn't actually bill itself as being an instruction manual, but rather as a totally optional side content thing.

That is my problem, right there. Everyone knows you're supposed to get all three core books. That's why they sell them in boxed sets and such. The core books are SUPPOSED to be where you start. The DMG fails to live up to that design, that title, that role. I consider this an extremely foolish choice--essentially shooting yourself in the foot, as far as actually getting people into the hobby.

You keep saying we should ignore the title. Why? Why shouldn't we actually expect to get what's being sold to us?

 

[FrogReaver]

No. You do not need to create content to be the DM. There is plenty of content available. DMing is about running the game. That's quite enough for new players to take in.

Once they are no longer newbies they can, if they like, start to learn how to create content, but it is not an essential skill for a DM.

IMO. I agree with the first sentence, but I disagree with the conclusion. Just because world building isn’t an essential DM activity (one can run published adventures) doesn’t imply it is not a DM activity.

Speaking of, the DMG does cover more than just world building even if it’s primary focus is on world building.