Paul Farquhar
Legend
One in three episodes qualifies as "great".
It's a shame we have to sit through two out of three that are boring in order to get there.
Star Wars: Andor
- Thread starter Aeson
- Start date
It's a shame we have to sit through two out of three that are boring in order to get there.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
The destruction of Coventry was the one that came to my mind. Which was allowed to happen unimpeded and without evacuation to conceal that the Enigma code had been cracked.
The destruction of an entire city makes 50 rebels look like a bargain.
Enevhar Aldarion
Hero
Of the 10 episodes so far, I would say 5 were good, 4 were definitely slow, bordering on boring, and 1 was in between.
MarkB
Legend
It often gets overlooked that the Republic was already an unjust ruler even before it became the Empire. Palpatine exacerbated tensions in order to incite the Separatists to war, but they had legitimate grievances.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
This is addressed in Tales of the Jedi. But who knows how long the Sith had been working to undermine the Republic? Maybe The Acolyte will touch on this.
wicked cool
Hero
Another awesome episode. It’s must watch tv for me and I have a hard tim waiting to watch it. I think it’s even better than the mandalorian and might be one of the better science fiction stories in the past 10 years
I wonder if we see serkis again
I wonder if we see serkis again
This isn't wrong, but it's also not right. I will say this with the caveat that preferences are individual, and people like what they like. Not all episodes are equally great.
That said ....
Remember when you were a kid, and you thought, "Hey, when I'm all grown up, I'm going to eat candy all the time, every meal, every day!" Or maybe it was raw cookie dough. Or pumpkin pie. Or packets of powdered dairy creamer ... not judging.
Anyway, at a certain point, you likely gave up that dream. Mostly because you realized that a non-stop diet of
It's the same with shows and pacing. What you call boring, others (like me) call necessary plot and character development. Those are the episodes that laid the groundwork for an episode like this to have the resonance that it does. All of that time Cassian has been hiding behind that cynical shell- yes, even in the payroll heist- gets exposed and ripped away as he exhorts Kino to fight.
I don't say this because everything was perfect before- I still think that the presentation of the flashbacks was odd, although it did help explain the dynamic on the planet (with his "mother" and the understanding of his resentment toward the Empire) but overall, this is by far the best of the Star Wars shows.
@wicked cool
On the one hand, the general rule of thumb for television is that if you don't see a character actually die, the character is not dead. And if you do see the character die, they still might get better.
On the other hand, the basic story and narrative beats if the story pretty much require that Kino died. That was the whole point- he always knew that would be the likely final result if he succeeded. And yet, he chose to fight. Him not dying would retroactively make all of that ... a lot less powerful.
MarkB
Legend
Him escaping would make it a lot less powerful. Him getting left behind, and eventually falling into Dedra's clutches, might make it more so.
Celebrim
Legend
Listen to it again as if Luthen is recalling his past and ticking off the things that are lost to him. The first thing he lists is somewhat surprising:
"Calm"
The thing about "Calm" in the Star Was universe is that it is a very loaded term full of resonance. We learn about "Calm" and it's importance way back in Empire. Luke asks Yoda how he can know if he is on the Light side, and Yoda tells him: "You will know. You will know when you are calm, at peace, passive." For a force user on the light side, to say you have sacrificed your calm is a devastating thing to say. And because it is both innocuous sounding and devastating in its depths, that's how I know Luthen is a force user. Because only a good writer would start the speech with "Calm" knowing how loaded that term.
But Luthen continues recounting his sacrifices:
"Kindness", "Kinship", "Love"
Now Luthen is telling us his history. Because these are things that the Jedi order demands you sacrifice. The Jedi order as it exists in this era avoids attachment to the point of avoiding even higher emotions. At some point in the past, Luthen had kindness, kinship, and love - and then those things were lost to him as he journeyed on his path. But why?
Luthen tells us:
"I have given up all chance at inner peace" Once again, Luthen returns to the mystical and the religious of experience. He gave up all chance of inner peace on his path.
And then he says:
"I share my dreams with ghosts" Luthen shares his dreams with the dead. The people who understood Luthen and wanted what he wanted are dead. And again, "ghosts" is a loaded term in the Star Wars universe. It brings to mind Force Ghosts. Luthen's dead that he shares his dreams with are Jedi.
"I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago to which there is only one conclusion"
Now Luthen gives hints to his timeline. When did this change start to happen? When did he give up all chance of "inner peace"? Fifteen years ago.
And again he returns to the mystical and religious to describe this transformation.
"I'm damned for what I do".
And he tells us why he is damned.
"My anger. My ego. My unwillingness to yield. My eagerness to fight has set me on a path from which there is no escape"
All these things are Jedi sins. It's the Jedi who avoid anger and ego. It's the Jedi whose life is suppose to be a continual act of yielding to the force. It's the Jedi who are supposed to be always passive, only using the force for defense and never to attack. Only a Jedi sees damnation in this way within the Star Wars universe. Only a Jedi talks like this.
And again, notice the use of loaded Star Wars language. He's on a "path" for which there is no escape.
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."
Think about this in the excellent terms of the WEG Star Wars D6 RPG. If Luthen is not a force sensitive, then what he's doing can be justified by the ends. He's fighting the good fight. He's acting heroically. But force sensitives are held to a higher standard. They have to adhere to Davies idealism. It matter to them not just whether they are fighting the right fight, but how they fight the fight. Cassian or another non-force sensitive can shoot a contact in the back for higher purpose, committing murder and betrayal of a friend whom they know is doomed in order to protect the galaxy from an existential threat, but a force sensitive PC that does that earns a dark side point because they do know the full implications of their actions. Luthen's murky grey path is uniquely torturous to him, because as a force sensitive he can't escape the reality of what he's doing and it's damaging him.
Luthen goes on to say, "I yearned to be a savior to fight against injustice, but by the time I looked down there is no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. The [eager?] that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? EVERYTHING!"
In the Star Wars universe, only the Jedi talk like that. I can tell him for a Jedi the same way I can tell from the language of writer what works they grew up with and chewed over and read and reread. You don't write that speech as a writer in the Star Wars universe unless you've really chewed over what it means to be a Jedi, and since this writer is good I know he doesn't write that speech by accident. He knows exactly what he is saying.
"Calm"
The thing about "Calm" in the Star Was universe is that it is a very loaded term full of resonance. We learn about "Calm" and it's importance way back in Empire. Luke asks Yoda how he can know if he is on the Light side, and Yoda tells him: "You will know. You will know when you are calm, at peace, passive." For a force user on the light side, to say you have sacrificed your calm is a devastating thing to say. And because it is both innocuous sounding and devastating in its depths, that's how I know Luthen is a force user. Because only a good writer would start the speech with "Calm" knowing how loaded that term.
But Luthen continues recounting his sacrifices:
"Kindness", "Kinship", "Love"
Now Luthen is telling us his history. Because these are things that the Jedi order demands you sacrifice. The Jedi order as it exists in this era avoids attachment to the point of avoiding even higher emotions. At some point in the past, Luthen had kindness, kinship, and love - and then those things were lost to him as he journeyed on his path. But why?
Luthen tells us:
"I have given up all chance at inner peace" Once again, Luthen returns to the mystical and the religious of experience. He gave up all chance of inner peace on his path.
And then he says:
"I share my dreams with ghosts" Luthen shares his dreams with the dead. The people who understood Luthen and wanted what he wanted are dead. And again, "ghosts" is a loaded term in the Star Wars universe. It brings to mind Force Ghosts. Luthen's dead that he shares his dreams with are Jedi.
"I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago to which there is only one conclusion"
Now Luthen gives hints to his timeline. When did this change start to happen? When did he give up all chance of "inner peace"? Fifteen years ago.
And again he returns to the mystical and religious to describe this transformation.
"I'm damned for what I do".
And he tells us why he is damned.
"My anger. My ego. My unwillingness to yield. My eagerness to fight has set me on a path from which there is no escape"
All these things are Jedi sins. It's the Jedi who avoid anger and ego. It's the Jedi whose life is suppose to be a continual act of yielding to the force. It's the Jedi who are supposed to be always passive, only using the force for defense and never to attack. Only a Jedi sees damnation in this way within the Star Wars universe. Only a Jedi talks like this.
And again, notice the use of loaded Star Wars language. He's on a "path" for which there is no escape.
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."
Think about this in the excellent terms of the WEG Star Wars D6 RPG. If Luthen is not a force sensitive, then what he's doing can be justified by the ends. He's fighting the good fight. He's acting heroically. But force sensitives are held to a higher standard. They have to adhere to Davies idealism. It matter to them not just whether they are fighting the right fight, but how they fight the fight. Cassian or another non-force sensitive can shoot a contact in the back for higher purpose, committing murder and betrayal of a friend whom they know is doomed in order to protect the galaxy from an existential threat, but a force sensitive PC that does that earns a dark side point because they do know the full implications of their actions. Luthen's murky grey path is uniquely torturous to him, because as a force sensitive he can't escape the reality of what he's doing and it's damaging him.
Luthen goes on to say, "I yearned to be a savior to fight against injustice, but by the time I looked down there is no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. The [eager?] that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? EVERYTHING!"
In the Star Wars universe, only the Jedi talk like that. I can tell him for a Jedi the same way I can tell from the language of writer what works they grew up with and chewed over and read and reread. You don't write that speech as a writer in the Star Wars universe unless you've really chewed over what it means to be a Jedi, and since this writer is good I know he doesn't write that speech by accident. He knows exactly what he is saying.
Last edited:
Celebrim
Legend
Addendum to the above post.
I'm very much reminded of one of the main story arcs in Avatar the Last Airbender.
Early on a lot of viewers guessed that Prince Zuko was going to be the fire bending master that trains Aang. And conversely a lot of viewers heard that theory and either denied or groaned, because it's so predictable and so trite. And especially with the show being a cartoon, everyone was kind of expecting that if they did go that way, that it would be too easy and involve too little character transformation to go from where Zuko was as a character to the sort of character that would befriend and aid the Avatar.
But of course, while the protest that Zuko becoming a good guy is predictable and trite is a correct one, it's based on the assumption that the writer won't take the time to do that story right and further that because it is predictable and trite that it is just excessively hard to do it right. But of course, the writers did do it right and it's one of the most powerful arcs in TV cinematic history.
I feel the same way here. A lot of people guess Luthen was a Jedi from the clues we got before this with the cane and the Khyber crystal and the Holocrons. And I was definitely among the crowd that denied this and groaned, for the same reason that Zuko becoming a good guy made me groan at first.
But, if they are going to put in the work to make the reveal work, and they seem to be doing that, then like the Zuko arc this could be absolutely amazing and I'm going to have to eat my words about how the story would be better if we never see a lightsaber the whole time. Because if you do the work right, then even with the spoiler it doesn't matter. Zuko's "prodigal son" scene brings tears to my eyes every single time.
Right now my only regret is Diego Luna refused to do all 5 of the originally planned seasons forcing the pacing to be this fast.
I'm very much reminded of one of the main story arcs in Avatar the Last Airbender.
Early on a lot of viewers guessed that Prince Zuko was going to be the fire bending master that trains Aang. And conversely a lot of viewers heard that theory and either denied or groaned, because it's so predictable and so trite. And especially with the show being a cartoon, everyone was kind of expecting that if they did go that way, that it would be too easy and involve too little character transformation to go from where Zuko was as a character to the sort of character that would befriend and aid the Avatar.
But of course, while the protest that Zuko becoming a good guy is predictable and trite is a correct one, it's based on the assumption that the writer won't take the time to do that story right and further that because it is predictable and trite that it is just excessively hard to do it right. But of course, the writers did do it right and it's one of the most powerful arcs in TV cinematic history.
I feel the same way here. A lot of people guess Luthen was a Jedi from the clues we got before this with the cane and the Khyber crystal and the Holocrons. And I was definitely among the crowd that denied this and groaned, for the same reason that Zuko becoming a good guy made me groan at first.
But, if they are going to put in the work to make the reveal work, and they seem to be doing that, then like the Zuko arc this could be absolutely amazing and I'm going to have to eat my words about how the story would be better if we never see a lightsaber the whole time. Because if you do the work right, then even with the spoiler it doesn't matter. Zuko's "prodigal son" scene brings tears to my eyes every single time.
Right now my only regret is Diego Luna refused to do all 5 of the originally planned seasons forcing the pacing to be this fast.
