Dragonlance WotC Officially Confirms Takhisis and Tiamat Are The Same

It's been an issue in dispute for decades, over various editions of D&D, but WotC has officially confirmed that - at least in 5E - Dragonlance's Takhisis is, indeed, currently Tiamat. In previous editions, Tiamat has varied from being a big dragon to a minor goddess, while Takhisis has been a greater god on Krynn. At times they've been the same entity, and at others different entities. Today, WotC is putting its foot down and saying that Takhisis and Tiamat are, indeed, the same being.



Of course, this is not an opinion universally held. Dragonlance co-creator Margaret Weis emphatically stated that "TAKHISIS IS NOT TIAMAT, DAMN IT!"

Fizban's Treasuryof Dragons confirms that the beings echo across various settings.

D&D 5E - Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the...

www.enworld.org

 

[dave2008]

Just so I'm clear, Gygax and Kuntz invented the Chromatic "Dragon Queen," then Grubb named her Tiamat for his own campaign (which later impacted her MM listing) and then Tracy called her Takhisis for Dragonlance?

No, Grubb had a different name: Draco Cerebus, but he intended it to be the Chromatic Dragon from the Greyhawk supplement. This is all before she was given a name in the Monster Manual. So in reality it is possible the name Takhisis predates Tiamat in terms of a name for the Chromatic Dragon as according to Grub there was no name for the Chromatic Dragon when he gave the idea to Tracy. However, Tiamat as a name was certainly published first.

It is also worthwhile to note that neither in the 1e Monster Manual or the Greyhawk supplement was the Chromatic Dragon a god/goddess. That was Jeff's idea that he passed on to W&H.

With Tracy and Margaret doubling down on the notion that their version was different enough from the others as to be unique?

I just think in one or both of their minds it was always a different entity, in particular for their novels. They see it as taking Jeff's idea and then making it their own.

However, in terms of D&D the RPG it (the dragonlance setting) was a team creation and it seems pretty clear that the creatures have always been related.

 

[Rabulias]

It is also worthwhile to note that neither in the 1e Monster Manual or the Greyhawk supplement was the Chromatic Dragon a god/goddess. That was Jeff's idea that he passed on to W&H.

It may have originated with Jeff Grubb if he elevated the King and Queen of Dragons to deities in his game before the AD&D Monster Manual was published, but it is interesting to note that Deities and Demigods made the suggestion for Bahamut and Tiamat (among other powerful beings) to be treated as lesser gods:

 

[dave2008]

Additionally, there is an interesting description of deity powers and manifestations on different worlds in the 2e book "Faith and Avatars." The example they use to illustrate the concept is in fact Tiamat and Takhisis. It is to long for me to transcribe in full, but I think many will appreciate this:

"The being called Takhisis on one crystal sphere may or may not be Tiamat, and in any case her rumored demise had no effect on events in the Realms. From this we can assume that either Takhisis is Tiamat, has a presence in multiple crystal spheres, and is thus not dead - or she is dead and is thus not the Tiamat known in the Realms."

 

[dave2008]

It may have originated with Jeff Grubb if he elevated the King and Queen of Dragons to deities in his game before the AD&D Monster Manual was published, but it is interesting to note that Deities and Demigods made the suggestion for Bahamut and Tiamat (among other powerful beings) to be treated as lesser gods:

View attachment 266928

Yep, you beat me to it! If you did that (make them lesser gods) it gave them some more powers too!* I was going to look up when Deities and Demigods was published before I responded.

*Standard god powers:

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Jeff Grub explains the origin of the dragonlance gods from his own home campaign. What became Takhisis started as the Chromatic Dragon from the D&D pamphlets prior to getting the name Tiamat in the Monster Manual. The Chromatic Dragon was the head evil god in his campaign. I linked to the interview in an earlier post.

Thanks, I was confused by which "Greyhawk" was referenced, since by AD&D times, Tiamat was the Chromatic Dragon.

 

[darjr]

This was well before the latest WizKidz Tiamat but I thought this was interesting. Joe one of the most famous Dragonlance fans.

 

[vecna00]

This was well before the latest WizKidz Tiamat but I thought this was interesting. Joe one of the most famous Dragonlance fans.

Now that is damn sweet!

 

[dave2008]

This was well before the latest WizKidz Tiamat but I thought this was interesting. Joe one of the most famous Dragonlance fans.

You can buy the STL file of that Tiamat and 3D print it: Lord of the Print - Tiamat

That being said, and it is hard to tell the scale, I think the Tiamat in my basement is bigger: Building a better Tiamat. Now I just need to finish it!

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Another daft lore decision from the company that specialises in them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Fixed..

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