D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIV: Wizard)

[doctorbadwolf]

Is it an actual tradition in the world? What's the purpose of only being a Transmuter? And then what about OTHER traditions?

Who said there are wizards that are only transmuters?

Is it an actual inherent aspect of magic? Like, if you use magical senses, Shield smells like an Abjuration spell but not like an Evocation spell so it's inherently Abjuration? Are their elemental planes of those eight schools?

I would absolutely despise a cosmology that had elemental planes for the categories of spells. Talk about needless grid filling for its own sake…

In the end it feels really technical or academic, and not really exciting. Schools feel more like a meta conceit and that's a terrible way to build subclasses.

Completely disagree. While I enjoy war magic and bladesinging more, most of the school subclasses are very fun and bring out the theme quite well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Divination is the only one I really have experience with so it kinda wins my upvote by default. I specifically targetted Evocation to avoid a situation where a bland subclass coasts to victory by not being controversial enough to be downvoted.

Considering over half the remaining subclasses are much more “bland” than evocation, the above is pretty funny.

Now that it’s gone I’m not quite sure what to target We already have the Shepperd in the finals so we don’t need another Conjurer,

I’ll never understand this mindset. You a fan of the “we just need a warrior, expert, and mage” school of thought?

the Necromancer and Transmuter are kinda let down down by lackluster spell lists… Enchatment is icky, Illusion is too DM dependant, and Bladesinger should have been a class.

Even if there was a gish class, Bladesinger would be a subclass of it, if anything.

War Magic has ton of defenses but it’s not particularly Gish-like otherwise.

Goodness it’s wild to see a post like this laying out just take after take that I find mind bogglingly backwards.

Why would war magic need to be “gishy”? It’s a war magic specialist, not a Bladesinger.

 

[CleverNickName]

@doctorbadwolf, I've noticed you've been upvoting the Bladesinging subclass. Sell us on it!

 

[Vaalingrade]

I sort of agree with you, but it's a fraught feeling. I deeply care about where power comes from and what does it mean.

Wizards are masters of the arcane. They "hack" reality to change the universe to their whim; the ultimate expression of this being the spell wish. They attain their powers through deep scholarship. If areas of magic are moved away from wizard, it is because these magical feats are not attainable by mortals - divine magic being a key example. You need a really good justification why the wizard couldn't do an illusion, for example. Niche protection isn't enough.

Thus, Delete the Wizard. They eat too much real estate.

 

[Undrave]

I sort of agree with you, but it's a fraught feeling. I deeply care about where power comes from and what does it mean.

Wizards are masters of the arcane. They "hack" reality to change the universe to their whim; the ultimate expression of this being the spell wish. They attain their powers through deep scholarship. If areas of magic are moved away from wizard, it is because these magical feats are not attainable by mortals - divine magic being a key example. You need a really good justification why the wizard couldn't do an illusion, for example. Niche protection isn't enough.

The Wizard class can be the Master of the Arcane, but I don't think this should apply to every individual Wizard. If Wizards study, then it should be like real life university with people having area of expertise. An Engineer, a Nuclear Physicist and a Biochemist are all brilliant, but they have specialties. I think a Wizard's spell list should be divided in two: a core spell list all Wizards have access to, and a specialized spell list based on their subclass. Bob the Wizard can't do illusions because they didn't study illusions, they went to Necromancy College, for exemple.

 

[CleverNickName]

Here's why I love the Abjuration wizard.

1. The Concept
In a world where literally everyone and their next door neighbor is a magic-user of some sort, anti-magic is extremely useful and powerful. Even the most powerful lich, mummy lord, and archmage will start hoarding their Reactions and spell slots as soon as you walk into the room. You can save the party countless debilitating effects and hundreds of points of damage with a single, well-timed Counterspell. Breaking curses, scrubbing invisibility from pesky rogues, shutting down magic items, it's all in your wheelhouse.

Abjuration spells don't often allow save throws, and are rarely subject to resistance and immunity, so your magic is almost always at full-strength no matter what you're fighting.

And nothing beats the feeling of successfully Counterspelling your DM's Meteor Storm. The thunderous cheer from your friends at the table, the sour hate-filled look on your DM's face...seriously, I needed a cigarette afterward.

2. The Arcane Ward
Every time you cast an Abjuration spell, you gain a buffer of protection that scales with your level and the spell level. So not only do you protect the party from incoming fireballs and invisible rogues, you replenish your own temp hit points in the process. Eventually you learn to share this forcefield with allies within 30 feet.

3. Spell-breaking
Counterspell is arguably one of the most powerful spells in the game, and it gets even easier at 10th level (you get to add your proficiency bonus to opposed caster level checks when you cast it, or when you cast Dispel Magic.) This has good synergy with your arcane ward, too, since spending that higher spell slot is now less risky and gives your Arcane Ward more juice.

Abjuration wizards are the best wizards.
Change my mind.

 

[Undrave]

I’ll never understand this mindset. You a fan of the “we just need a warrior, expert, and mage” school of thought?

Not necessarily, it's just the final is going to be a Survivor Thread and I'd rather options don't eat into each other's votes and are all as varied as possible. Having two 'Summoner' would split the vote of people who really love summoners.

Why would war magic need to be “gishy”? It’s a war magic specialist, not a Bladesinger.

No no, I agree. I forgot what was the context for that musing but that was my point. a War Mage isn't a gish.

 

[Undrave]

2. The Arcane Ward
Every time you cast an Abjuration spell, you gain a buffer of protection that scales with your level and the spell level. So not only do you protect the party from incoming fireballs and invisible rogues, you replenish your own temp hit points in the process. Eventually you learn to share this forcefield with allies within 30 feet.

I love this design concept. I really wish all the School Specialist had a similar thing that rewarded you for picking spells of your specialty.

 

[TwoSix]

Wizards are masters of the arcane. They "hack" reality to change the universe to their whim; the ultimate expression of this being the spell wish. They attain their powers through deep scholarship. If areas of magic are moved away from wizard, it is because these magical feats are not attainable by mortals - divine magic being a key example. You need a really good justification why the wizard couldn't do an illusion, for example. Niche protection isn't enough.

That's the exact narrative I want to see the game evolve away from. I want wizardly magic to be the mastering of a specific sort of scholarly gnosis, but that there are many magical effects and techniques which don't fall under its remit.

 

[Tonguez]

Here's why I love the Abjuration wizard.

1. The Concept
In a world where literally everyone and their next door neighbor is a magic-user of some sort, anti-magic is extremely useful and powerful. Even the most powerful lich, mummy lord, and archmage will start hoarding their Reactions and spell slots as soon as you walk into the room. You can save the party countless debilitating effects and hundreds of points of damage with a single, well-timed Counterspell. Breaking curses, scrubbing invisibility from pesky rogues, shutting down magic items, it's all in your wheelhouse.

Abjuration spells don't often allow save throws, and are rarely subject to resistance and immunity, so your magic is almost always at full-strength no matter what you're fighting.

And nothing beats the feeling of successfully Counterspelling your DM's Meteor Storm. The thunderous cheer from your friends at the table, the sour hate-filled look on your DM's face...seriously, I needed a cigarette afterward.

2. The Arcane Ward
Every time you cast an Abjuration spell, you gain a buffer of protection that scales with your level and the spell level. So not only do you protect the party from incoming fireballs and invisible rogues, you replenish your own temp hit points in the process. Eventually you learn to share this forcefield with allies within 30 feet.

3. Spell-breaking
Counterspell is arguably one of the most powerful spells in the game, and it gets even easier at 10th level (you get to add your proficiency bonus to opposed caster level checks when you cast it, or when you cast Dispel Magic.) This has good synergy with your arcane ward, too, since spending that higher spell slot is now less risky and gives your Arcane Ward more juice.

Abjuration wizards are the best wizards.
Change my mind.

I agree Abjuration is my favourite Wizard probably because they work to disrupt overpowered magic!
They kinda remind me of the old spell stealing Incantatrix from Dragon Magazine, which was a concept I loved (has there been an official update of Incantatrix)

Ive not voted Abjurator up yet having relied on others to do so, but it is the one core school Id love to see win