D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part VIII: Mystic, aka Psion)

Undrave

Hero
I figured we'd have a lot to discuss on this one, once again, so I figured a full on thread to discuss this failed experiment would be welcomed.
Thread in question: D&D 5E - 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part VIII: Mystic, aka Psion)

I haven't read the UA in a while but my general impression of the Mystic was that it was just... TOO MUCH. Just too much stuff that could have been maybe pared down to two or even three full classes. Or at the very least go to 3 subclass for the first play test in order to nail down the base class and THEN add more subclass later.

Its a shame they never tried again though
 

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RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph
If you are at all interested in the Mystic class for games you run, I highly recommend you check out /u/ZDnD's Mystic homebrew here:
Sadly, it hasn't been updated in years, but the core class is interesting and plays differently from spells (which I liked a lot) without being too difficult to track. I also liked how he fit Rogue-y and Fighter-y subclasses in.
 


Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
My only real experience with this class is the experience in @FitzTheRuke 's pbp campaign, which featured a number of them. It was a hard campaign so we were glad to have them there supporting us (I was playing a thief lol) but TOO MUCH certainly seems to fit what I saw... (I'm tagging Fitz because he might have a different recollection )
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
My only real experience with this class is the experience in @FitzTheRuke 's pbp campaign, which featured a number of them. It was a hard campaign so we were glad to have them there supporting us (I was playing a thief lol) but TOO MUCH certainly seems to fit what I saw... (I'm tagging Fitz because he might have a different recollection )
No, you're on the money. The Mystic could do anything anyone else could do, but better. I'm not sure it needed much more than a balance pass. I think it really didn't need to be entirely scrapped. It just needed not to step on so many toes.
 

Undrave

Hero
No, you're on the money. The Mystic could do anything anyone else could do, but better. I'm not sure it needed much more than a balance pass. I think it really didn't need to be entirely scrapped. It just needed not to step on so many toes.
I think it was just trying to be too many concepts at once instead of taking the guy that could modify his body and make it its own class and keep the 'caster' guy as another.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
No, you're on the money. The Mystic could do anything anyone else could do, but better. I'm not sure it needed much more than a balance pass. I think it really didn't need to be entirely scrapped. It just needed not to step on so many toes.
My opinion is that toe stepping is fine. It's toe stomping that's bad. It's okay to do a lot of things well, but you shouldn't be able to replace the specialists.
 

ah, the holy text It is mostly embedded in my mind.
My opinion is that toe stepping is fine. It's toe stomping that's bad. It's okay to do a lot of things well, but you shouldn't be able to replace the specialists.
personally I want it to work as a non religious cleric/druid as far as role goes.

do not get into me about clerics of philosophy that would only work in planscape, no idea what a non-religious druid is other than a generic mcanimal lover.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
My opinion is that toe stepping is fine. It's toe stomping that's bad. It's okay to do a lot of things well, but you shouldn't be able to replace the specialists.
I agree. I don't mind niche-crossover. The last thing you want is for only one class to be able to do a thing that's needed, or someone "has" to play it. However, like you say, the "best" should probably remain the best. The mystic went too far, but that was part of UA playtesting. A part I think they should be careful about (sometimes I expect people will downvote a playtest thing because if it's "power level" - the thing they say they will fix later - and you throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 

I agree. I don't mind niche-crossover. The last thing you want is for only one class to be able to do a thing that's needed, or someone "has" to play it. However, like you say, the "best" should probably remain the best. The mystic went too far, but that was part of UA playtesting. A part I think they should be careful about (sometimes I expect people will downvote a playtest thing because if it's "power level" - the thing they say they will fix later - and you throw the baby out with the bathwater.
power level should be a standard voting topic as it would make things so much easier to judge.
 


Kinda surprised to see this got its own thread, seeing as how it wasn't even published as a class at all. But I guess we "needed" more controversy fodder to be voted out in the first 20 posts of the final round.
 

I was okay with the mystic class generally, but it was left in a state which can only be described as unfinished. So many of the abilities were vague or broken. With a few more rounds of quality control it could have become something useable.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I agree. I don't mind niche-crossover. The last thing you want is for only one class to be able to do a thing that's needed, or someone "has" to play it. However, like you say, the "best" should probably remain the best. The mystic went too far, but that was part of UA playtesting. A part I think they should be careful about (sometimes I expect people will downvote a playtest thing because if it's "power level" - the thing they say they will fix later - and you throw the baby out with the bathwater.
An "all mystic" party is probably the best "all of one class" party you could ever have.

I do agree that it could probably have been fixed.

Edit: something else that bothered me - the Wu Jen. Maybe I am too influenced by the 3.5 version, but I feel like the wu jen should not be done as psionics.
 

An "all mystic" party is probably the best "all of one class" party you could ever have.

I do agree that it could probably have been fixed.

Edit: something else that bothered me - the Wu Jen. Maybe I am too influenced by the 3.5 version, but I feel like the wu jen should not be done as psionics.
what have you not heard of the A-men the all cleric party?
 

what have you not heard of the A-men the all cleric party?
Or the B-team that are all Bards?

(More seriously an all-Bard team would actually be quite effective. Couple Lore nerds for different areas of expertise/Magical Secrets, Valor tank, Eloquence face/support, and maybe Creation as a tricksy type. They wouldn't have the same staying power as a Fighter or Cleric but with everyone contributing to healing and having Bardic Inspiration on hand...especially if they pick up that juicy Hexblade dip...)
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
Yeah, as the UA was written, an all-Mystic party would have been more capable than any other class. Bards and Clerics can be constructed to make a party, but the Mystic was designed to fill all "roles" (so that there only needed to be one Psionic class.

I think all they needed to do is to understand that while there is need for a Psion (whatever the name), it does NOT need to be able to be a one-class-party. It probably should replace a Wizard, but with a bit less niche (closer to a sorcerer, really) and Psionic subclasses could fill the rest of your party (if you wanted an all-psionic game).

BUT - psionic subclasses cannot fulfill the entire psionic component of the game. There ought to be one class, but it does not have to do everything that psionics can offer.
 

Undrave

Hero
I was okay with the mystic class generally, but it was left in a state which can only be described as unfinished. So many of the abilities were vague or broken. With a few more rounds of quality control it could have become something useable.
They really should have focused on a smaller subset of abilities and use those to guide the creaton of more.
Yeah, as the UA was written, an all-Mystic party would have been more capable than any other class. Bards and Clerics can be constructed to make a party, but the Mystic was designed to fill all "roles" (so that there only needed to be one Psionic class.
Like I said previously: The caster type Psion and the Immortal or what have you that modifies their own body. The ycould have given that one an Atavist subclass that turns into half-animal form, a bit like the Beast Barbarian.
 

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