D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[Mad_Jack]

I had an old car I spoke to all the time. Mostly "Please start" or "&$^ what's wrong now!" Doesn't mean it was sentient.

Well, if you keep speaking to it like that, no wonder it won't start for you...

 

[Mad_Jack]

Bah, that's amateur night! Those of us who really cracked it had the light cast on non-functional braces. Want no light because you're sneaking? No problem, shut your mouth. Need light? Smiles everyone, smiles! No object interaction needed.

I had a thief with a CL diamond set into one of his teeth, and another character who was blind in one eye so we had the cleric cast CL on his eye and he wore an eyepatch most of the time...

 

[pemerton]

Bard also spoke to a random thrush. Lots of things have sentience in Middle Earth.

Why is it random?

And in the context of D&D, isn't this what it is like when a ranger pursues their favoured enemy?

 

[pemerton]

When it comes to anti-dragon weapons, I assume people are inventive. I've had towns that also shot special ballista that kind of acted like harpoons on whales, barbed arrows with weights attached. In addition, they can fire nets etc. It won't kill the dragon, it's all about slowing it down and hopefully bringing it to ground. Biggest threat of course is simply well trained archers.

All of this of course is just backdrop and story. People have been figuring out how to kill every animal we've ever discovered, along with overcoming enemy equipment and tactics for that matter. I don't see why dragons would be different.

I've never read a fantasy story of the sort that inspired D&D, and FRPGing in general, in which specialised anti-dragon weaponry is invented and used. Dragons are defeated by valiant warriors, not by superior human technology. To me, this is consistent with the themes of fantasy (as opposed to sci-fi).

 

[Oofta]

I've never read a fantasy story of the sort that inspired D&D, and FRPGing in general, in which specialised anti-dragon weaponry is invented and used. Dragons are defeated by valiant warriors, not by superior human technology. To me, this is consistent with the themes of fantasy (as opposed to sci-fi).

Which I think is a failure of imagination on the part of the authors. People don't hunt whales by going mano e mano, they have a ship, crew and harpoons. I suppose that having the valiant warriors fight the dragon is better for story telling, and there are times when the PCs will fight one, I just don't think it's logical that it would work that way in a world where dragons (and other flying threats) are reasonably common.

If dragons are creatures of legend it makes sense there would be no specialized tactics or weaponry. But the "lone warrior marching into the dragon's lair" or even the "two dozen men-at-arms", typically armed only with swords, always seemed silly to me unless there's a logical reason for it. Our tribal ancestors used to hunt mammoths with stone spears and maybe a dozen men, I find it difficult to believe that a kingdom couldn't figure out tactics and numbers to take out a single dragon.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I've never read a fantasy story of the sort that inspired D&D, and FRPGing in general, in which specialised anti-dragon weaponry is invented and used. Dragons are defeated by valiant warriors, not by superior human technology. To me, this is consistent with the themes of fantasy (as opposed to sci-fi).

But its not entirely consistent with the rules of D&D. I think that's what people are getting at.

 

[pemerton]

But its not entirely consistent with the rules of D&D. I think that's what people are getting at.

In AD&D there is an Arrow of Dragon Slaying.

In 4e D&D there is a skill challenge to turn the dragon into a minion (ie in the fiction, to set up the fatal shot).

Given that 5e claims to be a game of unlimited imagination like its predecessors, I assume that it too has a way of handling this. Not too far upthread, @AbdulAlhazred suggested that that would be getting the GM to agree. I don't know the system well enough to know what other ways there might be.

 

[pemerton]

Which I think is a failure of imagination on the part of the authors. People don't hunt whales by going mano e mano, they have a ship, crew and harpoons. I suppose that having the valiant warriors fight the dragon is better for story telling, and there are times when the PCs will fight one, I just don't think it's logical that it would work that way in a world where dragons (and other flying threats) are reasonably common.

If dragons are creatures of legend it makes sense there would be no specialized tactics or weaponry. But the "lone warrior marching into the dragon's lair" or even the "two dozen men-at-arms", typically armed only with swords, always seemed silly to me unless there's a logical reason for it.

The point of fantasy stories about valiant warriors defeating dragons isn't to speculate on how, in the real world, human beings might meet the challenge posed by the existence of flying, fire-breathing T-Rexes.

Those stories are about courage, power, sometimes humility (Bard and St George, but maybe not so much Beowulf). As I said, this is a difference between sci-fi and fantasy.

 

[James Gasik]

Why is it random?

And in the context of D&D, isn't this what it is like when a ranger pursues their favoured enemy?

I mean unless there's some backstory between Bard and that bird, I assume it's some bird he never met before.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The point of fantasy stories about valiant warriors defeating dragons isn't to speculate on how, in the real world, human beings might meet the challenge posed by the existence of flying, fire-breathing T-Rexes.

Those stories are about courage, power, sometimes humility (Bard and St George, but maybe not so much Beowulf). As I said, this is a difference between sci-fi and fantasy.

That's true, but it illustrates a key issue with RPGs like D&D, where players are often expected to solve problems rationally, in a universe full of bizarre fantasy elements that only make sense in more "magic realism" or "metaphorical" context.

Sometimes that conflict is a lot of fun in the way you saw in some novels (particularly in the '80s), where someone just comes along and "sorts out" a fantasy world (you also get this a bit in Terry Pratchett) with Facts and Logic.

Ironically enough, lot of modern fantasy RPGs (and some older ones, like Pendragon and Heroquest, but they're in the minority) do manage to handle this gracefully, but D&D has always had some peculiar issues here. It doesn't help at all that D&D stole its magic system and general approach to magic from a series of what are basically sci-fi novels/short stories (something I'd say with a lot of confidence having read them a while back), which have a very science-y kind of magic in them, and totally failed to import the mysticism and weirdness of even Tolkien.