Congratulations WotC...

[Horwath]

Right now here on 1D&D sub-forum of ENWorld, in last 50 threads, there are 48 about OGL and trashing of it and WotC in general.

The sub-forum that should be for discussing upcoming rework of most successful edition of D&D.

Never have I seen this fast removal of interest for a D&D product.
Not even in the days where it was "in" to bash 4E just for the sake of it.

We came here mostly with enthusiasm for new product, posting our opinions, criticism and own homebrew ideas that we "think" it would sit nice for new edition and commenting on various ideas and your playtest materials.
Hoping that we will get a better, more balanced, even more fun product to add to our favorite hobby collection.

Now, it all looks like it is burned to the ground...

Bravo!



...you might consider hiring Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein as your HR office managers, can't hurt at the moment...

 

[Branduil]

As I said in another thread, I really think 4e's design was a double-edged sword. As many people liked it as hated it.

5e's deliberate inoffensiveness and "blandness"(I'm not using that as a criticism per se) is actively working against it here. When times were good, it worked well, few were especially upset at the idea of playing 5e, but it's not the kind of game that inspires fervent defenders when times are tough. Rather, it's the kind of game where you think "Hmm, this is good, but it could be better if I just.." When everyone is involved in the 5e ecosystem, that's really effective design, because you can find the 5e mod you're looking for! But by actively kicking everyone out, now they've unleashed the desire to "really fix" 5e that's been bubbling for years. We've entered the era of 5e Heartbreakers, and nothing is stopping this train now.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I was questioning how popular DnDone is going to be before all this happened. With pretty much every person I ask saying they were just going to stay on 5e indefinitely and never switch over.

Now you add in this entire OGL mess and all these competing systems popping up in response, and the playerbase is going to be even further dragged away from the new edition.

What is the WotC / Hasbro response if the new edition is a complete flop? With the majority of the community blanking it to keep playing 5e?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

As I said in another thread, I really think 4e's design was a double-edged sword. As many people liked it as hated it.

5e's deliberate inoffensiveness and "blandness"(I'm not using that as a criticism per se) is actively working against it here.

Exactly.

I was down to defend 4E because there was, to me, something worth defending, something interesting, something new, despite the insane PR gaffes and other screw-ups. And you know what? Every day this goes on, those 4E PR gaffes are looking like really small beans minor incidents by comparison with this.

 

[Branduil]

Exactly.

I was down to defend 4E because there was, to me, something worth defending, something interesting, something new, despite the insane PR gaffes and other screw-ups. And you know what? Every day this goes on, those 4E PR gaffes are looking like really small beans minor incidents by comparison with this.

Yes, I liked it too, and while Pathfinder filled the void for people who wants a 3.x-style game, you could also say that if you wanted a 4e-style game... you just had to play 4e, it was really the only big TTRPG in its style.

If I wanted to clone 4e, I'd have to write like 500 powers without infringing copyright... not easy or quick. Meanwhile, the stuff people like in 5e is all really high-level and easy to adapt. Bound Accuracy and Advantage/Disadvantage are not going to be hard to incorporate into new systems for 3PPs, and just the nature of those mechanics will inherently make conversion from 5e easy, even if they use entirely novel terms.

 

[Princessmaker]

Exactly.

I was down to defend 4E because there was, to me, something worth defending, something interesting, something new, despite the insane PR gaffes and other screw-ups. And you know what? Every day this goes on, those 4E PR gaffes are looking like really small beans minor incidents by comparison with this.

I understand, but the whole idea of 'subordinate' the lore to the mechanics is absurd in any kind of game based on telling a story. It's an absurd, to be honest. That was the dealbreaker to me that time. Forgotten Realms was the othe that suffered the most under it.

Now, with one D&D, it's the real life situation. Most lore is being supressed, changed or subordinated to the political/social view of the moment, it's another absurd, and one that gets you warnings, bans or whatever just touching it. It's like a beehive to hide all the naughty word decisions made by shady companies for maximum profitability.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I understand, but the whole idea of 'subordinate' the lore to the mechanics is absurd in any kind of game based on telling a story.

I mean, this isn't a 4E thread, but the issue that didn't happen with the core 4E setup. It only even arguably happened when 4E was applied to other settings, like the FR. The core 4E aligned setting and lore. Both informed each other. That's basically the same Earthdawn and literally hundreds of other RPGs, though it was novel for D&D.

Forgotten Realms was the othe that suffered the most under it.

Yes, but let's be clear, this was the THIRD TIME the Forgotten Realms had suffered because rules were being put ahead of setting. Because it was the biggest rules change, it also featured the most dramatic idiocy. I won't defend what they did to the FR. It was just dumb. There were other ways to handle it. But again, the third time, with the first being the Time of Troubles, the second being whatever the idiocy was with 3E (involving The Weave somehow? I don't even remember at this point), so unfortunately there was a multi-decade tradition of doing this to the FR when you got a new edition. I'm told the changes even in 3E were so significant they invalidated a bunch of maps (before 5E brought back the old geography).

Most lore is being supressed, changed or subordinated to the political/social view of the moment

ROFL.

What?!? What a segue lol!

Argh laughing pretty hard IRL because "Orcs are no longer basically a racist stereotype" is being compared to "Yo we deleted half of Toril".

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I've been playing DnD in one form or another since 84 or so. Started with 1E, but have played the older stuff later, including chainmail. I've been a staunch purchaser of books put out by TSR/WOTC over those decades of playing and still own crates of books, magazine, and boxed sets devoted to my favorite hobby. 4E was my least favorite version of DnD and I think that was mainly due to the execution and homogenization of classes. But that was purely a personal opinion and I still bought, and continue to won, all the 4E books and supplements. 3E was a golden era for me (with warts and all) because of the sheer amount of third party content that was being added.

I say this not as a brag, but as context.

The OGL has likely pushed me away from purchasing any future WOTC DnD books.

And this pains me. It pains me because a lot of my joy is seeing new rules and settings and adventures even if I don't agree with or like them. Cause even bad content can give inspiration.

Planescape is my favorite setting and I'll miss the upcoming book as a result.

Yes I know I can still use all my old rules.
Yes I know that my decision is a relatively minor one in comparison to WOTC's current revenue.
Yes I know there are alternatives and to be honest I play or have played many of them.

It still pains me though.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A bit too early to write it all off.
Still the old optimi(zer)st...

 

[WarDriveWorley]

A bit too early to write it all off.
Still the old optimi(zer)st...

Maybe. And if they turn it around I'll be happy to say I was wrong.