5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

[Cleon]

Er..,, is there a difference? Maybe for CR? Wouldn't a Bonus Action rather indicate a "choice" than an "attack that happens each round because it is part of its Multiattack"?

Not really.

If it uses Hypno-Glare with either a Bonus Action or part of a Multiattack standard action, the effect on its Damage-Per-Round is pretty much the same.

 

[ilgatto]

Isn't, a +2 to hit and +3 damage only Strength 18/51-76 in AD&&D terms?

Yup, 18/51-75

That's considerably less than the 18/00 of an AD&D troll, let alone the Strength 19 of a Hill Giant.

The Fifth Edition Troll has Strength 18, so we're already giving it a better Strength with STR 19.

Hmm..., this is getting confusing.

I was arguing for 5E STR 20 because I associate the 1E WD21 cyclops with 1E DDG Greek cylopes and therefore 1E giants. Given the size bump giants got in 2E, I would therefore try to figure out what this would mean for the size and Strength for a 2E conversion of the WD21 cyclops - and then apply it to the 5E conversion. Giving the WD21 cyclops giant-like Strength in 2E would therefore increase the 2E Strength of the cyclops leader beyond that mentioned in WD21.
All of this by leaving the 2E ogre and the troll out of the picture for this 2E conversion and...

...anyway, the point is moot (hmm... is that English?) for I wrote the post without realizing that you'd already given the hypnoclops STR 19 in the update, with which I'm now happy because that could allow for 5E STR 20 for the leader if you'd agree to that.

By the by: I don't think there's an official 2E monster manual that says that a troll has Strength 18/00.

1E MM only says it does 1d4+4 hp damage per claw, which doesn't really suggest Strength 18/00 for many reasons.
2E MC1 says the same for claw damage and adds that a troll "attacks with a +5 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 18/91-99.
2E MCC1 says the same for claw damage but that a troll "attacks with a +8 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 20.

Edit: Sorry about the table, I found the button when looking for a way to link to the update and, of course, had to press it and now I can no longer remove it.
Oh well, at least I seem to have found a way to link to the update without quoting any of it.

 

[ilgatto]

Not really.

If it uses Hypno-Glare with either a Bonus Action or part of a Multiattack standard action, the effect on its Damage-Per-Round is pretty much the same.

OK.
What about the notion that a Bonus Action could indicate a "choice" and that making the glare a part of its Multiattack could indicate that it is an "attack that happens each round because it is part of its Multiattack"?
What would the wording be under Multiattack if the glare would fall under that?

 

[Cleon]

I worked up a Working Draft for the Dragon Warriors' Dragon Teeth. Is it acceptable?

New Magic Item​

​

DRAGON TOOTH​

Wondrous item, rarity by dragon: very rare for gold, red and silver; rare for black, blue, brass, bronze, copper, green and white ​

​

A dragon tooth is a reptilian fang three to six inches long, small enough to fit in a pocket. They are usually found in pairs or sets of four, all canine teeth from the jaws of a deceased dragon of young or adult age, and their command word is often a nickname of that dragon (e.g. "Emerald Emperor Salvia" for a set of green dragon teeth). Some legendary ancient dragons have had a score or even dozens of dragon teeth harvested from their remains, but the normal limit is four per dragon.​

 When activated by use of its command word, the tooth becomes a living creature, a dragon warrior whose type matches the tooth's dragon (black, blue, brass, bronze, copper, gold, green, red, silver, white). A dragon tooth may be used in one of two ways: it can become a dragon warrior immediately, or it can transform into a delayed-action trap that becomes a dragon warrior when triggered. See the individual dragon warrior entries for the creature's statistics.​

 The tooth's dragon warrior exists for 1 hour. At the end of this duration, the creature reverts to its tooth form and crumbles to dust, destroying the dragon tooth. It reverts to a tooth early if it drops to 0 hit points or if you use an action to speak the command word again while touching it.​

 To use a dragon tooth immediately, you use an action to speak the command word, crush the tooth, and then throw it to a point on the ground within 60 feet of you, where the tooth becomes a dragon warrior. If the space where the warrior would appear is occupied by other creatures or objects, or if there isn't enough space for the creature, the tooth doesn't become a dragon warrior. The dragon warrior is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your spoken commands. It speaks Common and Draconic, but the magic of the tooth allows it to understand commands given in any of your languages. If you issue no commands, the warrior defends itself but takes no other actions.​

 To use a dragon tooth as a trap, you use an action to speak the command word and then plant the trap, either by laying it onto a firm and level surface within 5 feet (floor, table, etc.), pushing it into earth within 5 feet, or sowing it onto plowed soil within 60 feet. You can use one action to activate multiple dragon teeth from the same set and lay them on a surface within an adjacent 5-foot square, but planting them may require additional actions: it takes one action to push [two?] teeth into earth within an adjacent 5-foot square, or one action to sow [four?] teeth onto plowed soil within a 60-foot cone. You can also use an action to move up to your speed and plant teeth from another location, allowing you to set dragon tooth traps at multiple positions. If you are killed or incapacitated, you will drop any trap-activated dragon teeth you have not yet planted, laying it onto a random surface within 5 feet.​

 Once planted, a trap dragon tooth will become a dragon warrior if it takes any damage or is stepped upon by a creature (including stepping on soil the tooth is buried under, which causes the warrior to sprout from the ground). The warrior attacks the creature that triggered the trap, fighting to the death. If the triggering creature flees, the warrior pursues it unerringly, sensing its direction as if it was using a locate creature spell. If another creature injures the dragon warrior, the dragon warrior views it as a new triggering creature and attacks them too, although it can only sense the location of the original triggering creature. If no triggering creature is alive, the warrior defends itself but takes no action.​

 

[Cleon]

Yup, 18/51-75


Hmm..., this is getting confusing.

I was arguing for 5E STR 20 because I associate the 1E WD21 cyclops with 1E DDG Greek cylopes and therefore 1E giants. Given the size bump giants got in 2E, I would therefore try to figure out what this would mean for the size and Strength for a 2E conversion of the WD21 cyclops - and then apply it to the 5E conversion. Giving the WD21 cyclops giant-like Strength in 2E would therefore increase the 2E Strength of the cyclops leader beyond that mentioned in WD21.
All of this by leaving the 2E ogre and the troll out of the picture for this 2E conversion and...

...anyway, the point is moot (hmm... is that English?) for I wrote the post without realizing that you'd already given the hypnoclops STR 19 in the update, with which I'm now happy because that could allow for 5E STR 20 for the leader if you'd agree to that.

By the by: I don't think there's an official 2E monster manual that says that a troll has Strength 18/00.

1E MM only says it does 1d4+4 hp damage per claw, which doesn't really suggest Strength 18/00 for many reasons.
2E MC1 says the same for claw damage and adds that a troll "attacks with a +5 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 18/91-99.
2E MCC1 says the same for claw damage but that a troll "attacks with a +8 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 20.

Edit: Sorry about the table, I found the button when looking for a way to link to the update and, of course, had to press it and now I can no longer remove it.
Oh well, at least I seem to have found a way to link to the update without quoting any of it.

The table's just blank on my browser, so I don't know what you're going for.

Checking the Troll, it appears it's only the 1E version that's Strength 18/00.
The 2E Troll has either a 18/91-99 Strength in the Monstrous Compendium Volume 1 ("In the rare case that a troll wields a weapon, it attacks with a + 5 damage bonus") or Strength 20 in the Monstrous Manual ("In the rare case that a troll wields a weapon, it attacks with a + 8 damage bonus").

 

[Cleon]

OK.
What about the notion that a Bonus Action could indicate a "choice" and that making the glare a part of its Multiattack could indicate that it is an "attack that happens each round because it is part of its Multiattack"?
What would the wording be under Multiattack if the glare would fall under that?

The main difference to making its Hypno Glare a Bonus Action rather than part of a Multiattack depends on whether we give it any more Bonus Action options (like Dash or a bonus Claw Attack, for example).

If it doesn't have any Bonus Actions to choose from, it doesn't make much difference.

 

[Casimir Liber]

Looking at the depiction of them in WD21, I guess I see them as more gaunt, wiry and active than lumbering large giants, so am up for some brawling reactions or bonus actions. In which case, happy to make the stare part of multiattack. If we're thinking hp too high, can drop fo 8d10+32 or 10d10+30 (if dropping CON to 16,say) - happy with either..?

Also have split claws

also have an alternate club attack maybe to give it some options...?

Right, I think giving it this as a bit of flavour then:

Aggressive. As a bonus action, the cyclopskin can move up to its speed toward a hostile creature that it can see.

 

[ilgatto]

I worked up a Working Draft for the Dragon Warriors' Dragon Teeth. Is it acceptable?

New Magic Item​

​

DRAGON TOOTH​

Wondrous item, rarity by dragon: very rare for gold, red and silver; rare for black, blue, brass, bronze, copper, green and white ​

​

A dragon tooth is a reptilian fang three to six inches long, small enough to fit in a pocket. They are usually found in pairs or sets of four, all canine teeth from the jaws of a deceased dragon of young or adult age, and their command word is often a nickname of that dragon (e.g. "Emerald Emperor Salvia" for a set of green dragon teeth). Some legendary ancient dragons have had a score or even dozens of dragon teeth harvested from their remains, but the normal limit is four per dragon.​

 When activated by use of its command word, the tooth becomes a living creature, a dragon warrior whose type matches the tooth's dragon (black, blue, brass, bronze, copper, gold, green, red, silver, white). A dragon tooth may be used in one of two ways: it can become a dragon warrior immediately, or it can transform into a delayed-action trap that becomes a dragon warrior when triggered. See the individual dragon warrior entries for the creature's statistics.​

 The tooth's dragon warrior exists for 1 hour. At the end of this duration, the creature reverts to its tooth form and crumbles to dust, destroying the dragon tooth. It reverts to a tooth early if it drops to 0 hit points or if you use an action to speak the command word again while touching it.​

 To use a dragon tooth immediately, you use an action to speak the command word, crush the tooth, and then throw it to a point on the ground within 60 feet of you, where the tooth becomes a dragon warrior. If the space where the warrior would appear is occupied by other creatures or objects, or if there isn't enough space for the creature, the tooth doesn't become a dragon warrior. The dragon warrior is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your spoken commands. It speaks Common and Draconic, but the magic of the tooth allows it to understand commands given in any of your languages. If you issue no commands, the warrior defends itself but takes no other actions.​

 To use a dragon tooth as a trap, you use an action to speak the command word and then plant the trap, either by laying it onto a firm and level surface within 5 feet (floor, table, etc.), pushing it into earth within 5 feet, or sowing it onto plowed soil within 60 feet. You can use one action to activate multiple dragon teeth from the same set and lay them on a surface within an adjacent 5-foot square, but planting them may require additional actions: it takes one action to push [two?] teeth into earth within an adjacent 5-foot square, or one action to sow [four?] teeth onto plowed soil within a 60-foot cone. You can also use an action to move up to your speed and plant teeth from another location, allowing you to set dragon tooth traps at multiple positions. If you are killed or incapacitated, you will drop any trap-activated dragon teeth you have not yet planted, laying it onto a random surface within 5 feet.​

 Once planted, a trap dragon tooth will become a dragon warrior if it takes any damage or is stepped upon by a creature (including stepping on soil the tooth is buried under, which causes the warrior to sprout from the ground). The warrior attacks the creature that triggered the trap, fighting to the death. If the triggering creature flees, the warrior pursues it unerringly, sensing its direction as if it was using a locate creature spell. If another creature injures the dragon warrior, the dragon warrior views it as a new triggering creature and attacks them too, although it can only sense the location of the original triggering creature. If no triggering creature is alive, the warrior defends itself but takes no action.​

Ha! Beat me to it by seconds - well, 35 minutes. Was just going to see how my rough draft (edit: made without looking at the conversion) (mostly ripped from DMG figurine of wondrous power, which I believe the current OGL still allows us to do ) would apply to the conversion so I'll leave it here for your entertainment while I read your version.


DRAGON TOOTH
Wondrous item, very rare
A dragon tooth is the canine of a dragon made magical in an arcane process. If you use an action to speak the command word and throw the tooth to a point on the ground within 60 feet of you, the tooth becomes a dragon warrior. Alternatively, the tooth can also be used for setting a trap, by speaking the command word and then not crushing the tooth but leaving it in
some location instead. If the space where the dragon warrior would appear is occupied by other creatures or objects, or if there isn't enough space for the creature,
The dragon warrior is friendly to you and your companions. It understands your languages and unfailingly obeys your spoken commands without regard for its own safety? If you issue no commands, the dragon warrior defends itself but takes no other actions. If the dragon warrior has appeared as a result of setting a dragon tooth as a trap, the dragon warrior will appear and attack the first creature to break the tooth (e.g., by standing on it, breaking it, or otherwise harming it).
Which dragon warrior will appear depends on the dragon the tooth was taken from. See the <?>/above for the statistics of each dragon warrior.
The dragon warrior exists for 10 minutes for each Age Category of the dragon the tooth was taken from – i.e., 10 minutes for a Wyrmling, 20 minutes for a Young dragon, 30 minutes for an Adult dragon, and 40 minutes for an Ancient dragon – or until it is destroyed or dispelled. At the end of the duration, the dragon warrior and all equipment that came with it vanish, instantly disintegrating into inert dust.

Include a ref to Identify revealing the command word?
5E Identify says “(…) you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are. If the item was created by a spell, you learn which spell created it.”, so that makes it pretty self-explanatory?

 

[ilgatto]

The table's just blank on my browser, so I don't know what you're going for.

Checking the Troll, it appears it's only the 1E version that's Strength 18/00.
The 2E Troll has either a 18/91-99 Strength in the Monstrous Compendium Volume 1 ("In the rare case that a troll wields a weapon, it attacks with a + 5 damage bonus") or Strength 20 in the Monstrous Manual ("In the rare case that a troll wields a weapon, it attacks with a + 8 damage bonus").

Er..., yes, that's mostly what I said? Where do you get the notion of a 1E troll having Strength 18/00 from?

 

[ilgatto]

They are usually found in pairs or sets of four, all canine teeth from the jaws of a deceased dragon of young or adult age, and their command word is often a nickname of that dragon (e.g. "Emerald Emperor Salvia" for a set of green dragon teeth). Some legendary ancient dragons have had a score or even dozens of dragon teeth harvested from their remains, but the normal limit is four per dragon.

Maybe the construction of this could lead to people first thinking that only the canines from a young or adult dragon could be used and then ending up confused when you mention ancient dragons - which happened to me. But maybe that's me?

It reverts to a tooth early if it drops to 0 hit points or if you use an action to speak the command word again while touching it.​

This could suggest that the tooth survives the event and can be used again?

"It reverts to a tooth and crumbles to dust early if it drops to 0 hit points or if you use an action to speak the command word again while touching it."?

pushing it into earth within 5 feet, or sowing it onto plowed soil within 60 feet.​

Nice touch!

You can use one action to activate multiple dragon teeth from the same set and lay them on a surface within an adjacent 5-foot square, but planting them may require additional actions: it takes one action to push [two?] teeth into earth within an adjacent 5-foot square, or one action to sow [four?] teeth onto plowed soil within a 60-foot cone. You can also use an action to move up to your speed and plant teeth from another location, allowing you to set dragon tooth traps at multiple positions. If you are killed or incapacitated, you will drop any trap-activated dragon teeth you have not yet planted, laying it onto a random surface within 5 feet.​

I suppose this all depends on how long an "Action" takes and how fast someone can move?

Once planted, a trap dragon tooth will become a dragon warrior if it takes any damage or is stepped upon by a creature (including stepping on soil the tooth is buried under, which causes the warrior to sprout from the ground). The warrior attacks the creature that triggered the trap, fighting to the death.​

Maybe also mention the "fighting to the death" thing after (earlier):

The dragon warrior is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your spoken commands.

If the triggering creature flees, the warrior pursues it unerringly, sensing its direction as if it was using a locate creature spell. If another creature injures the dragon warrior, the dragon warrior views it as a new triggering creature and attacks them too, although it can only sense the location of the original triggering creature.​

So it attacks the second creature but cannot sense it's presence?

"If the triggering creature flees, the warrior pursues it unerringly, sensing its direction as if it was using a locate creature spell. If another creature injures the dragon warrior, the dragon warrior views it as a new triggering creature and attacks them too, although it can only ever locate a fleeing opponent as if it was using a locate creature spell if this concerns the original triggering creature ."?

I didn't find any spelling errors but we all know what that means.