D&D 5E So this is how D&D 5e dies, a beautiful start only to die in disgrace because of mismanagement. RIP 5e

[EzekielRaiden]

I mean, to be fair, if WotC put out something like 4E again they would lose my business. Same of they drop physical books and go all digital. Or it turns out that WotC is an elaborate front for sexual abuse. There are limits. The OGL just...isn't a limit for me.

I find myself strongly wishing to ask "why would that be such a horrible thing?" and realizing that the discussion that follows, as much as I would want to have it, probably would not be that productive.

 

[Yaarel]

D&D is dead.

Long live RPG.

 

[haakon1]

I doubt this will be D&D's death knell, but hopefully they will take such a hit that they don't think they can act with impunity anymore. It's a great example why you can't trust the 800 lbs gorilla in the room.

OGL 1.0a came of TSR’s bankruptcy, leading to WotC as saviors.

Maybe D&D has to die again to be born again?

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

The overwhelming majority of gamers doesn't know about and doesn't care about the OGL.

And yet, it will affect them and the gaming community around them nonetheless.

If it doesn't have the WotC Brand of Approval on it, it doesn't exist.

And yet, there are MANY publishers who have been surviving and thriving selling to SOMEONE. They're not selling books into the ether and getting money back. Pathfinder WAS outselling WotC at one point (or at worst very nearly so) - yes?

So, no, this isn't the "end of D&D".

No version of D&D has an expiration date - unless WotC were to manage to get their way. That really isn't the point though. EVERY version of D&D continues to live AND BE PLAYED, despite being out of print by 40 years. The question is whether WotC is a company that DESERVES your monetary support given their nakedly greedy, self-destructive, and CUSTOMER-insulting business practices of JUST the last week.

As you say, nothing is yet decided. The situation continues to unfold. But, how do YOU think it should unfold? I say take a stand for what you believe rather than let other people decide for you what you will be told to believe is right. Failure to vocally and continually object to what they're doing and trying to do, is to tacitly accept that whatever extortion and lies they perpetrate are actually nothing that WARRANT objecting to.

 

[Parmandur]

I find myself strongly wishing to ask "why would that be such a horrible thing?" and realizing that the discussion that follows, as much as I would want to have it, probably would not be that productive.

"Horrible," no, but I wouldn't pay for that.

 

[Maxperson]

This is the way the edition ends

This is the way the edition ends

This is the way the edition ends

Not with a bang but a licensing debate.

Hah! That would make a great Cards Against Humanity card.

"This is the way the edition ends

This is the way the edition ends

This is the way the edition ends

Not with a bang but with a ________________"

 

[Maxperson]

You can definitely clone 5E and ORC is 100% irrelevant to whether you can (if you think it is relevant, you literally don't understand how the law works). That's not even going to be a question. WotC launching a legal attack on someone cloning 5E outside the OGL would be absolute suicide on multiple levels.

The absolute best-case scenario for WotC attacking essentially a "non-OGL 5E clone" is that WotC causes itself massive PR damage, and loses a bunch of copyrights, all in order to damage a company that's not really a competitor, so it essentially gains nothing. But the rest of the industry gains a precedent showing what actually is copyright'd, and how they can work around that, which would be a huge boon.

That's the best-case scenario.

The worst case is the same or even more PR damage, it loses on every single copyright point (which is not that unlikely), and might even end up being forced to pay the costs of its victim. Then the industry learns that it can freely clone 5E without any fear at all, and WotC has essentially thrown away any threat value it had.

As for "they may not be able to revoke the OGL", yeah, maybe not, but they are acting as if they believe they can 100%, and are making all their decisions on that basis, so it's kind of irrelevant. We won't get a better OGL until/unless they stop that.

Best case scenario for them is an out of court settlement forced by lack of funds on the small competitor's side. Nothing gets decided that way and the small competitor goes away.

It would still be a PR nightmare for them, but they might be dumb enough to try and bully folks in order to intimidate the rest.

 

[TerraDave]

I remember T$R aggressively alienating fans and suing creators over its RP. Then it just about did go bankrupt--and D&D did just about disappear. Fortunately a big fan of the game had recently come into a lot of money.

Then there was 3.5 (which many fans were too forgiving of, but cracks started to show) and the sudden cancelation of the d20 license, then 4e...GSL, Gleemax, massed errata, the character builder moving online...and disaster again looming.

Companies get greedy and make mistakes. This seems to be especially true of companies that make RPGs.

But the games live on.

 

[Lichbeard]

I just checked puzzle and game reference books, where most RPGs live on Amazon. The best selling RPG, non-D&D is Cthulu at 22 and Zweihander Starter is at 25. These have both leapt up a significant amount.

They're selling much less than the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

D&D is still the king.

No King Rules forever.

 

[MGibster]

I mean, near as I can tell that is still the case. In 2000, their main revenue stream was a stream of ethically questionable Gacha pack sales. Still is.

I think they're pivoting to a business model where they make more on subscription services and microtransactions in a manner we've seen done in video games. Changing the OGL was just the first step of their new business model.