It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[mamba]

So that people are not truely harmed.

I would much rather have people who feel they were harmed realize they weren't really, than have people retaliate and truely harm creators and subsequently destroy their livelihood.

then focus on the 'support 3pps' part instead of on the 'WotC did nothing wrong, you all are just imagining things' part...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

did you break a promise ? yes you did, there is your answer... now most people are lying about one thing or another and how important you consider the fact that someone lied about their marriage vow is up to you. You clearly do not care that WotC lied and was attempting to break a contract, but others might not be as disinterested

It is not that I don't care. People break promises all the time, especially if situations and people change after 20 years.
Did you mean it when you said your vows. Yes. Is it better to go different ways 20 years later? Maybe.
It should be a mutual agreement though.

 

[mamba]

It is not that I don't care. People break promises all the time, especially if situations and people change after 20 years.
Did you mean it when you said your vows. Yes. Is it better to go different ways 20 years later? Maybe.
It should be a mutual agreement though.

I am not disagreeing here. You still broke a vow though, no matter how you slice and dice it. I have no problem with people getting divorced, I do have a problem with a company breaking a contract because it is convenient to them now and they feel they are big enough to bully the other side.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I am not disagreeing here. You still broke a vow though, no matter how you slice and dice it. I have no problem with people getting divorced, I do have a problem with a company breaking a contract because it is convenient to them now and they feel they are big enough to bully the other side.

Also no disagreement there.
But they did not break the contract. That is the point you miss.

 

[mamba]

But they did not break the contract. That is the point you miss.

I am aware that they did not, I just do not give them credit for that because we had to force them to not do so. Left to their own devices they would have happily revoked it

 

[ECMO3]

Consider instead believing them when they say they were harmed. Just a thought.

I have not had anyone tell me they were specifically harmed and if I did I would ask them how.

 

[ECMO3]

Or even WotC's own words in their official statements that their actions caused harm to content creators and fans in the community.

So we are going to trust WOTC then?

 

[ECMO3]

Harmed by your definition, perhaps, but not by the definition of those of us who've published 3pps. You're really dismissing other people's feelings here, you know.

My definition is what I am making decisions on. The 3pps I have listened to have mostly praised WOTC for changing their mind and at least one of them is making the same argument I am (if not using the same verbiage).

 

[Scribe]

So we are going to trust WOTC then?

 

[ECMO3]

then focus on the 'support 3pps' part instead of on the 'WotC did nothing wrong, you all are just imagining things' part...

Can you name a 3rd party publisher that was harmed by what WOTC did who will not be further harmed by players abandoning D&D? If these creators exist then surely you can name one.

I can tell you treantmonk has stated publicly on his website that he thinks his fans should not abandon 5E over what WOTC did, strongly implying if not stating that this course of action is wrong and would hurt creators. I have received similar from the people running a D&D related business that I know personally. So that is who I am basing my decisions on.

Also as a point of fact I never, ever said WOTC did nothing wrong. On this very thread I stated they lied and gaslighted the community. I said they did not revoke the OGL and I said what they did in the end did not harm 3p publishers. The firs is a verifyable face. As for the second, if I am wrong on that part, and WOTC did in fact harm some creators, those creators will be harmed even more by the community members leaving the game.