Kyle Brink (D&D Exec Producer) On OGL Controversy & One D&D (Summary)

The YouTube channel 3 Black Halflings spoke to WotC's Kyle Brink (executive producer, D&D) about the recent Open Game License events, amongst other things. It's an hour-plus long interview (which you can watch below) but here are some of the highlights of what Brink said. Note these are my paraphrases, so I encourage you to listen to the actual interview for full context if you have time.

OGL v1.1 Events

• There was a concern that the OGL allowed Facebook to make a D&D Metaverse without WotC involvement.
• Re. the OGL decisions, WotC had gotten themselves into a 'terrible place' and are grateful for the feedback that allowed them to see that.
• The royalties in OGL v1.1 were there as a giant deterrent to mega corporations.
• Kyle Brink is not familiar with what happened in the private meetings with certain publishers in December, although was aware that meetings were taking place.
• When the OGL v1.1 document became public, WotC had already abandoned much of it.
• The response from WotC coinciding with D&D Beyond subscription cancellations was a coincidence as it takes longer than that to modify a legal document.
• The atmosphere in WotC during the delay before making an announcement after the OGL v1.1 went public was 'bad' -- fear of making it worse if they said anything. The feeling was that they should not talk, just deliver the new version.
• Brink does not know who wrote the unpopular 'you won but we won too' announcement and saw it the same time we did. He was not happy with it.
• 'Draft' contracts can have dates and boxes for signatures. Despite the leaked version going to some publishers, it was not final or published.
• There were dissenting voices within WotC regarding the OGL v1.1, but once the company had agreed how to proceed, everybody did the best they could to deliver.
• The dissenting voices were not given enough weight to effect change. Brinks' team is now involved in the process and can influence decisions.
• The SRD release into Creative Commmons is a one-way door; there can be no takeback.

One D&D

• The intention is that all of the new [One D&D] updates they are doing, "the SRD will be updated to remain compatible with all of that". This might be with updted rules or with bridging language like 'change the word race to species'.
• Anything built with the current SRD will be 100% compatible with the new rules.
• Brink does not think there is a plan to, and does not see the value, in creating a new OGL just for One D&D. When/if they put more stuff into the public space, they'd do it through Creative Commons.
• WotC doesn't think of One D&D as a new edition. He feels it's more like what happened with 3.5. They think 5E is great, but coud be better and play faster and easier with more room for roleplay, so there is stuff they can do to improve it but not replace it.

Inclusivity

• WotC is leaning on the community to discourage bad actors and hateful content, rather than counting on a legal document.
• They are working on an adaptable content policy describing what they consider to be hateful content which will apply to WotC's work (no legal structure to apply it to anybody else).
• They now have external inclusivity reviewers (as of last fall) who look over every word and report back. They are putting old content through the same process before reprints.
• Previously cultural consultances were used for spot reviews on things they thought might be problematic, but not everything (e.g. Hadozee).
• The problematic Hadozee content was written by a trusted senior person at WotC, and very few people saw it before publication.
• 'DnDShorts' video on the internal workings and management culture of WotC is not something Brinks can talk on, but it is not reflective of his team. Each team has its own culture.
• In the last couple of years the D&D team hiring process has made the team more inclusive.
• When asked about non white-CIS-men in leadership positions at WotC, Brinks referred to some designers and authors. He said 'guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt' and 'I'm not the face of the hobby any more'. It is important that the creators at WotC look like the players. 'Guys like me can't leave soon enough'.

Virtual Tabletops (VTTs)/Digital Gaming

• Goal is to make more ways to play ('and' not 'instead') including a cool looking 3D space.
• Digital gaming is not meant to replace books etc., but to be additive.
• The strategy is to give players a choice, and WotC will go where the player interests lie.

​

 

[billd91]

And to the other part, work... you mean that when someone with any interest wants to talk games and hobby stuff, or make plans to play games I treat them equally with respect and interest, and hopefully become gaming friends. Yeah ok, work done since I was a kid. If you mean I am going to put down one group of friends to the benefit of another, nope not going to happen, we can all be friends and play games together with mutual respect.

The time and resources people (marketers, art directors, etc) have to spend isn't infinite. Every bit of time spent talking to marginalized groups means you're not talking to the privileged groups, and vice versa. Every piece of art that is depicts someone who is a POC or female isn't a white guy. You'd think nobody would complain, but they do. Every bit of effort spent to make the hobby more approachable gets attacked by members of the group privileged enough to be in it from the beginning. Every bit of effort gets criticized as alienating the privileged in-group. And this is despite claims that the hobby has always been welcoming, that "My table has always welcomed people who are different" while still having mostly-to-all white guys sitting at it.

And it isn't even about putting down the privileged in-group as much as it's working to broaden it by focusing on who isn't already in it. It doesn't matter - the criticism from the privileged in-group is the same.

 

[mamba]

You trust WotC not to use optics?
I mean the interviewers in this interview didn't even trust what Kyle was telling them on certain topics why are you so confident in WotC not utilising the benefit of optics? I mean hiring could be run by a different department.

you did see who was being interviewed, right? If it were about optics I assume we would see a different person sitting there

 

[Umbran]

Glad about that.

And, to back me up, Brink backs me up in the latest interview to come out...

• The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.
• There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.

Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full...

www.enworld.org

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

the two are not mutually exclusive, you can be non-white and talented, and if you listen to what he says he does not mean it that way either

Strictly, quotas can have a side effect of excluding skills. If you have 2 positions, the first and second ranked both black and the third white, you would be forced to discard the second ranked.
Umbran said the modern criteria avoid this and I trust him, even if i do not understand how.

 

[mamba]

You can have only one of two criteria: skill or representation. If you introduce a quote it is very easy that you will be forced to exclude somebody skilled.

no, you can have both. If I have no quota I will still exclude somebody skilled, there are not that many positions to fill…

 

[mamba]

This is my assumption. It's not that their current majority (50.1%) is not 'white dudes' it's their target demographic is not, as that's the growth opportunity.

Which again means, I (the white dude) am not the target.

why is this an ‘either or’ and not an ‘and’?

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

And, to back me up, Brink backs me up in the latest interview to come out...

• The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.
• There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.

Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full...

www.enworld.org

Devil hide in the details. What happens if, due to the lack of opportunity unfortunately given to poc, it results that white are largely the best candidates? Will the skills win over the fear of being considered a racist company? Unfortunately this very polarized climate sourrounding these issues is very difficult to make choices.

 

[Scribe]

Can you elaborate on that?

You can have diversity, the presentation of the hobby has been diverse for decades.

The tone shift, the small changes in language, I don't know how to articulate it but a 'softening' of how everything is done, said, presented.

why is this an ‘either or’ and not an ‘and’?

I don't know, they don't seem to want to put out product that leans in a direction that I have wanted.

 

[mamba]

If you want to grow, you advertise, and design, and write, for the growth market. Yes?

not if you want to keep the one you already have. I don’t see a lot of rock bands switching to rap because rap fans are an untapped market they can expand into

 

[AstroCat]

The time and resources people (marketers, art directors, etc) have to spend isn't infinite. Every bit of time spent talking to marginalized groups means you're not talking to the privileged groups, and vice versa. Every piece of art that is depicts someone who is a POC or female isn't a white guy. You'd think nobody would complain, but they do. Every bit of effort spent to make the hobby more approachable gets attacked by members of the group privileged enough to be in it from the beginning. Every bit of effort gets criticized as alienating the privileged in-group. And this is despite claims that the hobby has always been welcoming, that "My table has always welcomed people who are different" while still having mostly-to-all white guys sitting at it.

And it isn't even about putting down the privileged in-group as much as it's working to broaden it by focusing on who isn't already in it. It doesn't matter - the criticism from the privileged in-group is the same.

I gotta get back to work but quickly... It's for some people about relational proportions, if the market is x amount then x amount should in theory be represented in the art and content, if this is out of balance then then group x or y, will feel misrepresented. Every group wants to be the privileged one, even within under-privileged groups there is a struggle.

Generally people play with who they find, regardless of ethnicity, if it's one ethnicity or a bunch, it's who's available that you get along with. I
believe the goal should be to grow total market share without losing established market share, otherwise you are just trying and maybe even failing at replacing one with another with potentially a tiny RoI. That is not a sound business model.

Again, before this gets into being personally attacked I will state clearly. Growing the hobby is awesome, and I want more representation in the art and stories, it's even personal for me. But denying reality and doing so in a divisive, spiteful clumsy manor is terrible for the hobby as a whole and wotc of late demonstrates this clearly.