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Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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TheSword

Legend
I've always considered "bloat" a negative description - at least when I was in college that's how my writing professor would call stuff that was unnecessarily wordy. Like if a writer kept trying to explain the same thing, over and over, without giving new information. Using a lot of words to make a point. But those words didn't really mean anything, were without any real meaning. And they would keep doing this, word after word, paragraph after paragraph, page after page, chapter after chapter. As if getting up to a certain page count was virtuous, even if they had nothing really to say. They just kept writing. And the editors didn't cut out unnecessary descriptions. Because they thought the readers enjoyed thick books that really said nothing, but that those who read them preferred books with a lot of words (even if those words didn't really add anything to the readers' understanding of the content.)
So we keep getting these products like this. Where writers can just write anything but they don't really tell us anything useful. I think it's because the company is desperate for more hardcover books to be released even though there's really nothing interesting left to write (and certainly they don't want to do it out of fear of alienating fans). So this kind of boring content keeps getting published, month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year. And it's not exciting. You don't want to read it. You don't feel inspired. There's this sheen of corporate gloss painted over everything - and every color is muted and every idea is diluted - until every page seems murky, like a baby-poop beige color. And people keep buying stuff that is not inspired, original, or useful.
But it's the same thing you just read. Radiant Citadel? Strixhaven? Keys of the Radiant Strixmaiden Dragon Queen Treasury Hoard?
Six months ago I would have echoed your concern. However I don’t see how you can look at this year’s releases, which seem both innovative and yet familiar And maintain that position. It smacks of entrenchment.

Phandelver wasn‘t a gimick it’s very solid campaign area building off a working kernel. Keys from the Golden Vault looks really interesting, everything that was missing from Dragonheist. If the rest is dross then I’ll still be very happy with these two.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Six months ago I would have echoed your concern. However I don’t see how you can look at this years releases, which seem both innovative and yet familiar And maintain that position. It smacks of entrenchment.

Phandelver wasn‘t a gimick it’s very solid campaign area building off a working kernel. Keys from the Golden Vault looks really interesting, everything that was missing from Dragonheist. If the rest is dross then I’ll still be very happy with these two.
It's all personal taste, anyways. We had fun with Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Dragon Heist, in spite of the perfectly valid criticisms of their structure. Still useful to me and mine at the table.
 

Six months ago I would have echoed your concern. However I don’t see how you can look at this years releases, which seem both innovative and yet familiar And maintain that position. It smacks of entrenchment.

Phandelver wasn‘t a gimick it’s very solid campaign area building off a working kernel. Keys from the Golden Vault looks really interesting, everything that was missing from Dragonheist. If the rest is dross then I’ll still be very happy with these two.
Well to be honest, IIRC, @Retreater hasn’t actually purchased and read the books he was criticizing - at least the last time I heard.

I mentioned him for clarification purposes. But I recall he just didn’t like the look of them and what he heard about them.
 


Retreater

Legend
Six months ago I would have echoed your concern. However I don’t see how you can look at this year’s releases, which seem both innovative and yet familiar And maintain that position. It smacks of entrenchment.
All I know is that the most recent stuff I've purchased from them has been of poor quality. The other stuff you've mentioned isn't even out yet - so you're being as optimistic for no reason as I'm being pessimistic for no reason, right?

Well to be honest, IIRC, @Retreater hasn’t actually purchased and read the books he was criticizing - at least the last time I heard.
Hard to get an opinion of something in shrink wrap you can't actually look at (Spelljammer). So I have to trust the very wide pool of reviews I've watched and read.

Van Richten's Guide (the last thing I purchased - with Christmas cash) was moderately worth the discounted price on Amazon ($15).
Call of the Netherdeep (actually checked out and read from my local library) was a toothless bore of an adventure that can be beaten by an NPC party while the group is on auto pilot
Hoard of the Dragon Queen - I've ran it when 5e first came out. It's Forest Oracle quality dreck.
Candlelight Mysteries and Radiant Citadel - flipped through them and scanned through a couple adventures. Don't seem useful for the price. Maybe if I could get an individual one that seemed interesting, but I'm not buying a $40-50 hardcover thinking I "might" use a 3 page adventure.
Rime of the Frostmaiden - the most recent adventure I tried to run. Was hot garbage, nonsensical, and pointless.
 

Kyle Brink, as paraphrased by Morrus:

"They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video [adult content] game' looking ahead."

To state the obvious:

The OGL1.0 always explicitly protected "the term D&D" as Product Identity.

Either Kyle Brink and his supervisors know this, and are cunningly counting on most of the listeners to not know or care;
Or Kyle Brink and his supervisors are astoundingly ignorant of one of the basic foundations of the TRPG ecosystem for the past 23 years.
Either way, these folks (whether they be lying spinners or ignorant yahoos) are not trustworthy stewards of our game.

Furthermore, the OGL1.0 protected the term "D&D" even more than general trademark law!
Because in general trademark law, it is totally legal for a competitor to say "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons." But the OGL explicitly banned that phrase. See the actual text of OGL1.0a:

"You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility[...] You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark[.]"

Thus the customary euphemism found on the cover of OGL products: "Compatible with Fifth Edition", or "Compatible with the Fifth Edition of the world's most popular roleplaying game."

And, uh, now that the 5.1 SRD is in the Creative Commons, as long as a creator doesn't reference the OGL, there is now nothing stopping anyone (including Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm, Facebook, NuTSR, etc., etc.) from saying their game is "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons."
 
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All I know is that the most recent stuff I've purchased from them has been of poor quality. The other stuff you've mentioned isn't even out yet - so you're being as optimistic for no reason as I'm being pessimistic for no reason, right?


Hard to get an opinion of something in shrink wrap you can't actually look at (Spelljammer). So I have to trust the very wide pool of reviews I've watched and read.
So like I said. You neither purchase nor read it.
Van Richten's Guide (the last thing I purchased - with Christmas cash) was moderately worth the discounted price on Amazon ($15).
Call of the Netherdeep (actually checked out and read from my local library) was a toothless bore of an adventure that can be beaten by an NPC party while the group is on auto pilot
Wasn’t that done by CR, not WotC.
Hoard of the Dragon Queen - I've ran it when 5e first came out. It's Forest Oracle quality dreck.
Candlelight Mysteries and Radiant Citadel - flipped through them and scanned through a couple adventures. Don't seem useful for the price. Maybe if I could get an individual one that seemed interesting, but I'm not buying a $40-50 hardcover thinking I "might" use a 3 page adventure.
So like I said. You neither purchased nor read, but feel confident to dismiss.
Rime of the Frostmaiden - the most recent adventure I tried to run. Was hot garbage, nonsensical, and pointless.
And yet I have seen people on these boards claim it is the best 5e adventure and one of the best ever. People have different ideas on what is good. That is to be excepted.

However, saying something is bad and bloated when you haven’t read it or used it seems a bit dishonest. It is fine if you didn’t like what you heard and didn’t buy it, just don’t imply you did, IMO. When you disparage it, it sounds like your more familiar with it than your are.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
As a person who worked in more that one very large corporation at the ground floor customer facing end.

Nothing Brink said surprised me one bit.

The only thing I'm am wondering is if the rich and powerful have really bitten into and are true believers of next level tech like VR due to many of them having a financial interest. And stealing ideas, disrupting industries, and butting into markets is all they hear in board meetings.
 

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