Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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TheSword

Legend
All I know is that the most recent stuff I've purchased from them has been of poor quality. The other stuff you've mentioned isn't even out yet - so you're being as optimistic for no reason as I'm being pessimistic for no reason, right?
No, because I’ve read prisoner 13 and the first part of Phandelver has been out for ages. Enough to be optimistic for sure.

You get to choose though.

[Shoot, that was my 5,000th post. 😱]
 
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Retreater

Legend
So like I said. You neither purchase nor read it.
Right. I'm going off the examples of the 21 other 5e products I've purchased and read very completely. While some of them are good, there was definitely a drop-off in quality (for my tastes) in the past few years. I do not think that I should be required to purchase and read each book before deciding if it's suitable for my needs. I can read passages, reviews, sample chapters, etc., and make an informed decision.
Wasn’t that done by CR, not WotC.
Nope. It was a WotC production. Chris Perkins, Jeremy Crawford, and the entire team (with some Matt Mercer help) were all involved.
So like I said. You neither purchased nor read, but feel confident to dismiss.
Which one? Hoard of the Dragon Queen - I purchased and ran and am well within my rights to shoot it down. :)
The others - being the random assembled anthologies? Yeah, I'm good to dismiss it as something that's not interesting to me. When I can flip through a book and see that there's 10 pages for an adventure with a single fight and just a bunch of fan-fic holding it together, I know I'm not interested.
And yet I have seen people on these boards claim it is the best 5e adventure and one of the best ever. People have different ideas on what is good. That is to be excepted.
It's garbage, IMO. Here ya go for my in-depth analysis. D&D 5E - Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

However, saying something is bad and bloated when you haven’t read it or used it seems a bit dishonest. It is fine if you didn’t like what you heard and didn’t buy it, just don’t imply you did, IMO. When you disparage it, it sounds like your more familiar with it than your are.
Look, I can tell when basic things are left out of a product (ship combat in Spelljammer). I can look at a page count and tell that a decent team should be able to get that content in there. I'm a professional writer. I have designed game content.
If they can't meet the readers' expectations despite having literally millions of dollars and the best RPG design team on planet earth, they are doing something wrong.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Kyle Brink, as paraphrased by Morrus:

"They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video [adult content] game' looking ahead."

To state the obvious:

The OGL1.0 always explicitly protected "the term D&D" as Product Identity.

Either Kyle Brink and his supervisors know this, and are cunningly counting on most of the listeners to not know or care;
Or Kyle Brink and his supervisors are astoundingly ignorant of one of the basic foundations of the TRPG ecosystem for the past 23 years.
Either way, these folks (whether they be liars or ignoramuses) are not trustworthy stewards of our game.

Furthermore, the OGL1.0 protected the term "D&D" even more than general trademark law!
Because in general trademark law, it is totally legal for a competitor to say "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons." But the OGL explicitly banned that phrase. See the actual text of OGL1.0a:

"You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility[...] You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark[.]"

Thus the customary euphemism found on the cover of OGL products: "Compatible with Fifth Edition", or "Compatible with the Fifth Edition of the world's most popular roleplaying game."

And, uh, now that the 5.1 SRD is in the Creative Commons, as long as a creator doesn't reference the OGL, there is now nothing stopping anyone (including Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm, Facebook, NuTSR, etc., etc.) from saying their game is "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons."
I don't think they were afraid of someone using the D&D name or official channels to make adult content.

I think they were afraid of someone making anything adult or not socially acceptable anyway similar to D&D in a way to mainstream media, clickbaity news, and ootl audiences would associate it with D&D.

Because with the new financial strategy they were planning, the top suits only really cared about D&D as a brand.

So their main concerns was about making sure that

  1. no one could make a bigger brand
  2. that no one can make something that can diminish their brand via association.

Which really makes me wonder about what they hear in various board meetings.

Many people are in shareholders and board meeting of different corporations, right? It is possible that some people are in one meeting about something that they worry about and in another meeting doing getting information about doing the exact same thing that they're worrying about happening to the first company in the first meeting.
 

Right. I'm going off the examples of the 21 other 5e products I've purchased and read very completely. While some of them are good, there was definitely a drop-off in quality (for my tastes) in the past few years. I do not think that I should be required to purchase and read each book before deciding if it's suitable for my needs. I can read passages, reviews, sample chapters, etc., and make an informed decision.

Nope. It was a WotC production. Chris Perkins, Jeremy Crawford, and the entire team (with some Matt Mercer help) were all involved.

Which one? Hoard of the Dragon Queen - I purchased and ran and am well within my rights to shoot it down. :)
The others - being the random assembled anthologies? Yeah, I'm good to dismiss it as something that's not interesting to me. When I can flip through a book and see that there's 10 pages for an adventure with a single fight and just a bunch of fan-fic holding it together, I know I'm not interested.

It's garbage, IMO. Here ya go for my in-depth analysis. D&D 5E - Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)


Look, I can tell when basic things are left out of a product (ship combat in Spelljammer). I can look at a page count and tell that a decent team should be able to get that content in there. I'm a professional writer. I have designed game content.
If they can't meet the readers' expectations despite having literally millions of dollars and the best RPG design team on planet earth, they are doing something wrong.
You have every right to use whatever you want to decided whether or not to purchase a product. I never said otherwise. I would prefer you don’t try to suggest I did.

My point was that disparaging a product you haven’t read is dishonest and frankly lessons you. It makes it hard to take your criticism seriously and lessons the value of your comments with real merit.
 


Retreater

Legend
My point was that disparaging a product you haven’t read is dishonest and frankly lessons you. It makes it hard to take your criticism seriously and lessons the value of your comments with real merit.
Point taken. I'll put an addendum on my previous comments later tonight and make sure I'm fairly reviewing the products I've played.
I have enough criticism for this brand that I don't have to descend into hyperbole.
 


I don't think they were afraid of someone using the D&D name [...] to make adult content.
Kyle Brinks says just that. timestamp: 22:22 to 22:60.
I think they were afraid of someone making anything adult or not socially acceptable anyway similar to D&D
Anyone is already free to make an adult-themed RPG. And anyone is already free to make one that is very similar to D&D, playwise. The Wendy's Restaurant RPG and the upcoming Marvel Universe RPG are both, playwise, very similar to D&D. But, AFAIK, they don't even use the OGL! But if they had used the OGL, they would be contractually unable to use the phrase "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons."

Yet now that 5.1 is in CC, those companies (adult-content providers, Disney, FB, etc.) could make games which are exactly like 5.1E...and furthermore, they're now free to write on their cover:
COMPATIBLE WITH DUNGEONS & DRAGONS!
the top suits only really cared about D&D as a brand.
Now you're saying the exact opposite of what you said above.
 


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