D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Cadence]

Ok, so why do rhinoceros get a climb speed?

The first thing I turned up scared me and looked like it was written by an AI given the answer to whether a Rhino can climb and that the strength quote is about the "Rhinoceros Beetle"

Can Rhinos Climb Mountains? – SabinoCanyon.com

www.sabinocanyon.com

The top quote about them being adept climbers is on the NatGeo, Save the Rhino, and Wikipedia page too though. Didn't find a video on this one though.

Is Hippo on the list? I'm guessing they're awful at it. Or would they be aquatic?

Edit: But seriously, it certainly does feel like they could have a few more categories/sub-categories of templates.

 

[Enrahim2]

It seems to me that it's mostly Druid-lovers like myself who dislike these changes. People cannot understand our pain unless they've experienced for themselves the pure joy of turning into a spider, climbing on the ceiling, dropping down on foes, and turning into a rhinoceros mid-air.

Some folks say "Druids have too many options. You have to look in the back of the book." I say to them, how would you like it if Warlocks only received one or two slightly customizable Invocations?

I agree that the 2014 Druid was a little messy. But instead of getting rid of all choice, how about you organize a neat appendix of wildshape options? Like the spell list at the back of the book?

The thing is, they weren't limited to the stuff in the back of the book. As far as I understand wizards tried effectively that with D&D next, and it didn't fly.

 

[billd91]

The thing is, they weren't limited to the stuff in the back of the book. As far as I understand wizards tried effectively that with D&D next, and it didn't fly.

They tried a variation on what they’re doing now, just with a few more utility-defined templates instead of land, air, water based critter.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

That sounds like a house rule to me.

Or does every druid need to Wildshape into an Ape?

Edit: also, it takes a while to put on armor.

Are you seriously saying an awakened ape with weapons and armor proficiency can't wear armor? That's the ruling you'd make? Because that's what a druid in wildform effectively is.

It's more grounds for having wildshape focused armor/spells than just giving them that stuff for free.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Why? Monks don't need to use spell slots to act as scouts, neither do rangers. Bards aren't burning spell slots to have expertise, yet the rogue seems to do fine.

Casters should never equal a non-caster at what the non-caster does, because the non-caster is bound by reality and doesnt get to repick their superpowers after a nap. I don't even think casters should get skills, but sadly that ship has sailed. Versatility needs a price. ALL casters need to be seriously dropped in power (or non-casters need to go full mythic and be throwing mountains or stealing memories, but we all know that won't happen). This is a decent first step.

Why is it a bad thing if the Moon Druid and the Barbarian, to thematically tied classes, can both fill the same niche? It isn't like Barbarians can't be given cool things too.

And in terms of "tanking" Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Wizard, Rogue, Monk they all approach "tanking" in different ways, but they are all brought up as tanks or off-tanks, so why is it so terrible to add Druid to that list? Heck, Artificers and Clerics can make very good tanky characters too, I've often shocked DMs by how tanky my artificers are.

I've never seen a cleric tank like a druid, but it wouldnt necessarily surprise me, because 5E is such easymode it has more or less obliviated the need for any amount of tactics. That doesnt mean it is good design. It's supposed to be a team game, yet we still have some classes able to fill any role with ease. Why even bother with non-casters?

 

[mellored]

Just going to point out that pretty much no one has commented on the bonus action attack.

Which tells me that druid players, especially the current players, would rather be an off-tank, not a damage dealer.

Also, this too could be an option. Chose between tanking, utility, or offensive.

Level 1: you learn 2 different forms featurs from the following list. When you use wild shape, you can select from one of the two.
Your wild shape form needs to be physically capable of the ability you select, otherwise it's up to you.
-bonus action unarmed attacks, which can grapple or shove.
-temporary hit points equal to 5* your level
-tiny size and your damage is halved.
-mount and +10 speed

Level 5, you learn 2 additional form featues, which can be from the following list or lower level.
when you wild shape you can choose 2 features that you know.
-climb speed
-multi-attack.
-swim speed
-swallow
-web

Level 7: healing blossom leaves a zone for 1 minute. Friendly creatures who start their turn in the zone gain temporary hit points equal to half your druid level.

Level 9: learn 2 more features. You can now use 3 features at once.
-flying, -2 AC
-one elemental resistance
-+1d4 elemental damage.

-level 11: increase the size of Healing blossom

Moon druids
3: know 2 addional level 1 form features. You can use 2 at a time.
6: know 2 addional level 5 form features. You can use 4 at a time.
10: know 2 addional level 9 form features. You can use 6 at a time.
14: alter self at-will.

 

[mellored]

Are you seriously saying an awakened ape with weapons and armor proficiency can't wear armor? That's the ruling you'd make? Because that's what a druid in wildform effectively is.

Yes.

Could they swing a sword? Sure. But not with proficiency.

"Chimps, on the other hand, have much longer fingers and shorter thumbs, perfect for swinging in trees but much less handy for precision grasping"

Same with armor. They it wouldn't fit and thus they wouldn't have proficiency.

It's more grounds for having wildshape focused armor/spells than just giving them that stuff for free.

Animal specific armor and weapons are a separate story. But not one i thing fits the fantasy, especially a primal druid.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ok, so why do rhinoceros get a climb speed?

Why can Jellyfish walk on land and breathe air? Why does a butterfly have the same speed and agility as a sparrow? Why do Eagles get 120 ft of darkvision? Why can I turn into an eagle-headed jellyfish with butterfly wings that can climb?

Yes, if you look for things that don't make sense in a generic statblock like this, you will find them. Most people won't abuse it and if they do... well, nothing says "terrifying" like a Rhino charging UP a castle wall to bite you in half with razor sharp teeth.

 

[Yaarel]

I feel the rules for Unarmed Combat itself should allow the possibility of piercing and slashing damage types, in addition to bludgeon.

It is fine if Unarmed Combat "typically" deals bludgeoning damage, via punching and kicking. However, some species have horns (Tiefling) or claws (Dragonborn), or tusks (Orc), or fangs (Shifter), etcetera, so slashing and piercing should be normal options for Unarmed Combat. Even a Human can bite during brawl, to deal cutting damage, piercing.

It would be cool if certain species, like Genasi dealt elemental Unarmed Combat, for fire or cold damage.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Ding ding! You never need this ability, so why would giving this ability balance the class? You could give artificers advantage on social rolls against Constructs, and it wouldn't move the needle on the class's actual power or effectiveness, so why would we imagine this works for druids and animals?

I wish you would stop extrapolating your own experiences to assume everybody else plays the way you do. Others have already said their experience is different than yours, and this kind of stuff is basically accusing us of lying.

However, I will agree that being able to influence animals is not as nice as, say, getting a massive buffer of HP by shifting into animal form. In general nothing is as powerful or useful as enhanced combat, so, yes, swapping a powerful combat ability for an occasionally useful (YMMV) social ability feels like a bad trade.

EDIT: And it's a red herring to argue that it isn't "needed". There is not a single special ability in the game that is "needed" by the class that gets it, including the current bear form.