D&D (2024) Developer Video on Druid/Paladin/Expert Feedback

WotC has posted a video discussing initial feedback on the One D&D Druid/Paladin playtest, along with survey results from the Expert playtest. Some highlights for discussion: Druid: The developers recognize that the template version of wild shape is contentious. If they retain this approach, they would plan to add flexibility to those templates. If they revert to monster stat blocks, they...



WotC has posted a video discussing initial feedback on the One D&D Druid/Paladin playtest, along with survey results from the Expert playtest. Some highlights for discussion:

Druid: The developers recognize that the template version of wild shape is contentious. If they retain this approach, they would plan to add flexibility to those templates. If they revert to monster stat blocks, they might allow Druids to choose a limited number of options, with a default selection provided.

Paladin: The new version of smite is still intended to work with critical hits. If ranged smite persists, its damage may be adjusted through the internal balance/playtesting process.

Ranger: The updated Ranger scored very well in the playtest. Some players did miss the choice of options in the Hunter subclass.

Bard: All of the Lore Bard's features scored welll, but the overall subclass rating was mediocre. They attribute this to the loss of Additional Magical Secrets, which many saw as the key attraction of this subclass.

Rogue: The change to limit sneak attack to the Rogue's own turn scored poorly. The developers generally like moving actions to a player's own turn to keep the game moving quickly, but in this case, the change doesn't seem to be worth the loss of tactical flexibility.

Feats: With the exception of epic boons, all the feats in the Expert packet scored well. The developers are still loking at written feedback for fine tuning.

Conspicuously not mentioned were the Arcane/Divine/Primal spell lists, which were the focus of a lot of discussion during the Bard playtest.
 

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or some other game.
Indeed. The OGL debacle drove me to start writing my own and having now gained a perspective on 5e from a game design POV, I just can't be bothered even with 5e.

Fortunately though DCC has proven a breath of fresh air in the interim, as well as serving as a huge inspiration for my own game.
 

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Gorck

Prince of Dorkness
I've completely rejected the idea that WS complexity is hurting the playability of the Druid class, largely because Polymorph does not impact the 6 classes that gain access to that spell (including the Druid). In fact, I'm not sure that Druid being the least played class is even an issue, and that trying to 'fix' that is leading away from the stated design goals to make classes for people who like the class.
I'm not sure whether or not "WS complexity" is the reason Druids are the least played class. But Polymorph isn't a good comparison for WS. Polymorph is a 4th level spell that full casters can choose to learn at level 7. Wild Shape is a class ability that all Druids get in the 2014 PHB at 2nd level and (currently) in the 1DD playtest at 1st level. For a new player, or one who's just new to the class, there is much more time to learn the ins and out of a full caster class before gaining access to Polymorph at level 7 than there is for a Druid who gets Wild Shape in the first couple levels of play.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Big difference is that Polymorph is firstly a opt-in Spell instead of a core Class feature, and secondly way, way worse than Wildshape.

Thirdly, dollars to donits we get a new Polymorph proposal shortly.
Well, the one encouraging sign I saw in the Survey was the lack of comment space for the individual features of the Druid. I think they already know they have a clunker on their hands and are expecting to scrap it. Perhaps that will hold for any potential changes to Polymorph as well.

As a side note, I've never seen a Beastmaster Ranger at my table take Tasha's version over the PHB. The players I've played with want to have an actual animal as a companion (even if that means they are less effective in combat and risk losing the companion), not a vague animal like statblock spirit.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Well, the one encouraging sign I saw in the Survey was the lack of comment space for the individual features of the Druid. I think they already know they have a clunker on their hands and are expecting to scrap it. Perhaps that will hold for any potential changes to Polymorph as well.

As a side note, I've never seen a Beastmaster Ranger at my table take Tasha's version over the PHB. The players I've played with want to have an actual animal as a companion (even if that means they are less effective in combat and risk losing the companion), not a vague animal like statblock spirit.
The Tasha's option is meant to be balanced, just focused on addressing the frustrations of people who hated the original Beastmaster. It doesn't surprise me that plenty of people probavly prefer the original take...but I doubt that what will be in the 2024 PHB (nor Tasha's exact solution, for that matter).
 

OB1

Jedi Master
I'm not sure whether or not "WS complexity" is the reason Druids are the least played class. But Polymorph isn't a good comparison for WS. Polymorph is a 4th level spell that full casters can choose to learn at level 7. Wild Shape is a class ability that all Druids get in the 2014 PHB at 2nd level and (currently) in the 1DD playtest at 1st level. For a new player, or one who's just new to the class, there is much more time to learn the ins and out of a full caster class before gaining access to Polymorph at level 7 than there is for a Druid who gets Wild Shape in the first couple levels of play.
Right, but for that Druid, if they stick to the PHB for their choices, there isn't THAT much to look over (10 beasts vs 20 1st level spells to choose from). And again, I'd be perfectly fine with the Druid having to choose a set number of forms each long rest that they can change into the next day (which would solve 90% of the speed of play issues IMO). And I've seen players as young as 8 years old not have an issue with the Druid.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Well, the one encouraging sign I saw in the Survey was the lack of comment space for the individual features of the Druid. I think they already know they have a clunker on their hands and are expecting to scrap it. Perhaps that will hold for any potential changes to Polymorph as well.

As a side note, I've never seen a Beastmaster Ranger at my table take Tasha's version over the PHB. The players I've played with want to have an actual animal as a companion (even if that means they are less effective in combat and risk losing the companion), not a vague animal like statblock spirit.
To be honest, I hope they heavily revise wild shape, polymorph, beast master, and conjure X spells. No PC should be shopping out of the Monster Manual for class abilities and spells.
 

They could just reprint the blocks in the PHB and retain anything thats strictly for DMs in the MM.

Theres zero reason even outside of Druids or Polymorph or what have you that this information needs to be segregated.
 

Clint_L

Hero
Well, the one encouraging sign I saw in the Survey was the lack of comment space for the individual features of the Druid. I think they already know they have a clunker on their hands and are expecting to scrap it. Perhaps that will hold for any potential changes to Polymorph as well.

As a side note, I've never seen a Beastmaster Ranger at my table take Tasha's version over the PHB. The players I've played with want to have an actual animal as a companion (even if that means they are less effective in combat and risk losing the companion), not a vague animal like statblock spirit.
Oh, I gave plenty of feedback on the druid...

100% agree about these generic template creatures. Lame, lame, lame, lame, lame!
 

Undrave

Legend
I like this idea. And what if moon druid didn't give you access to a higher CR rating of beasts in general, but to specific higher CR rating beasts at specific levels. So every time you hit a level that gives you new sub-class abilities, one of them is a new form that is more powerful than a regular druid could access. For example, at level 3 you get dire wolf, at level 6 hunter shark, etc.

That would solve the "shopping" and complexity problem while still giving moon druids the ability to shift into more powerful beasts and be a pretty good, though not the best, tank.

Edit: or maybe the moon druid gets to pick ONE new specialty form at each sub-class level, limited by a specific CR. This brings back the shopping problem but limits it a lot, while allowing players customization, which is fun.

Moon druids only get elemental shape because there where no high level beast. Not because it's thematic. So I am perfectly fine dropping that aspect.

Then elemental druids could easily be their own thing. (Including wild fire summon).

Also, plant druids, which should turn into an immobilized tree that has a zone. Difficult terrain for enemies, bark skin for allies, scaling reach, or something.

A bit less sure about a bug specific one, but maybe.

I've completely rejected the idea that WS complexity is hurting the playability of the Druid class, largely because Polymorph does not impact the 6 classes that gain access to that spell (including the Druid). In fact, I'm not sure that Druid being the least played class is even an issue, and that trying to 'fix' that is leading away from the stated design goals to make classes for people who like the class.

Just completed the survey, and offered these suggestions.
1. Leave as in 2014, but provide several beast statblocks as examples.
2. Leave mostly as in 2014, but limit the forms you can turn into to a number equal to your PB. You choose the forms when you finish a long rest. Still provide examples.
3. If templates are going to be the way to go, provide options for each template (moving away from land, sea air). Also replace the Familiar at level 2 with a unique Tiny template that mimics a Familiar but which reverts back if it takes damage. Let this form communicate telepathically with a creature of the Druid's choice. Allows for Ranger/Rogue team-ups with the Druid for scout missions.

I think the base Druid should get four templates:

The Scout (tiny to small, inconspicuous animal, good stealth, no combat to speak of)
The Traveller (Ability to travel great distances, special movement modes like flight and swimming, subpar combat abilities but better than the Scout)
The Predator (Medium and up. Good damage and offense, skirmishing abilities)
The Defender (Large and up, slow speed compared to others, lots of HP and defensive features like horns or carapace)

And maybe you can slot in the ‘spend a Wildshape to summon a familiar’ option as a basic one..

Then as you level up you gain upgrades to those and the various Wildshape centric subclass could affect the different template. The Moon Druid could focus all of its upgrade on the Predator template. Especially granting the kind of abilities wolves get: pack tactic, knock down when attacking with advantage, multi attack and so forth. Maybe get a ‘Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing’ ability that lets you switch from Scout to Predator form as a bonus action or reaction without spending a new use of Wildshape! At later level you just turn into a big Spirit Wolf with magical moon marks or something.

Then you could have other variations, like my proposed bug themed druid who gets a new creepy template with wall climbing and webs or poison options. A more short-range controller type of form. And maybe the option to trade a Wildshape to summon a swarm!

The Elemental Druid and Plant Druid would also be possible.The Wildfire Druid and their powerful summon could also gain an elemental predator form, the Stone Druid would buff their Defender template, turning into incarnation of spirits of the Earth, and so forth. The Plant Druid’s new support template would let them become mighty trees with buffing abilities. Maybe their scout form would gain the ability to turn into plants at will to hide from detection.

I think this technique would lead to more thematic wildshapes while keeping them able to automatically scale with level and remain competitive picks. If you want your druid to turn into a bear from level 1 to the level 20, you can totally do it. And you don’t have to go through the Monster Manual or anything to find the best form.
 

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