D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Neonchameleon]

This kind of illustrates why I find Font of Power such a headache. Why is creating a spell slot so much more expensive than its reverse?

Precisely to avoid a sorcerer being a full spell point caster. Shuffling spell slot levels is deliberately a lossy option precisely to make pure spam strategies (whether all into your top level slot or all into first level spells) into obviously bad decisions. It's protecting the player from a play style most would find not so fun.

The real benefit of Twinned Spell is just Sorcery Point savings. Casting two fireballs would normally cost you two third level slots. With Twinned Spell, you can turn that third level slot into five points and cast fireball with three of those five, netting you two Sorcery Points over what you would have had. Assuming yu want to cast fireball twice in a row, of course.

Turning a third level slot into points only gets you three points. It's flexibility; you can now cast a fireball out of the slots for a burning hands and scorching ray. Always assuming you want that second fireball. Normally you'd need two scorching rays and a burning hands worth of slots.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

There is a strange tendency in this packet to define class powers in the spell framework.

I've often remarked that the thing that bugged me the most about 5e was that the design currency appeared to be measured in "spell units."

That they are making this even more explicit is not, IMO, a good thing. That said, this is my preference, and I tend to prefer magic to be rare and spectacular, not common and boring.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I've often remarked that the thing that bugged me the most about 5e was that the design currency appeared to be measured in "spell units."

That they are making this even more explicit is not, IMO, a good thing. That said, this is my preference, and I tend to prefer magic to be rare and spectacular, not common and boring.

someone told me this was the spell and caster edition, I guess WotC was like "Hold my D20"

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Excuse me, but shouldn't this be "they sacrificed the warlock to appease their dark masters?"

 

[Mephista]

Precisely to avoid a sorcerer being a full spell point caster. Shuffling spell slot levels is deliberately a lossy option precisely to make pure spam strategies (whether all into your top level slot or all into first level spells) into obviously bad decisions. It's protecting the player from a play style most would find not so fun.

Turning a third level slot into points only gets you three points. It's flexibility; you can now cast a fireball out of the slots for a burning hands and scorching ray. Always assuming you want that second fireball. Normally you'd need two scorching rays and a burning hands worth of slots.

Oh, bleh. I misrememberd, which means Twin Spell just a bad spell points >> spell slot metamagic. Assuming you want to cast the same spell twice and have nothing better to spend your points on.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I tend to prefer magic to be rare and spectacular, not common and boring.

Have you checked out Incantations, a 5E book of rare and spectacular (and often not combat-focused) magic?

 

[Neonchameleon]

It works in 4e and its clones (which includes 13Age), because that game revolves primarily around combat, often even the utilies. I say this as someone who loves playing 13Age.

That is simply untrue in 5e, demonstrably so with the example of Wild Beyond the Witchlight - an entire adventure that you can avoid all combat with. As much as some people like claiming that 5e is primarily about fighting and combat, there are official adventures and many parts in home games where you ... don't do combat. I remember once when my group spent three weekly sessions doing nothing but building a town. The group fighter ended up cutting down trees, the mages used Fly to run between towns and get food and clothes and starter seeds, etc.

As much as D&D loves its dungeons and monsters, there are just times when... D&D isn't about either. So planning a class that has any kind of non-combat inclination around combat ends up... not working. It works for the fighter, because the ability in question is a combat-only ability. It doesn't work for the warlock, because the warlock wants to do things outside of combat.

4e has better out of combat support that doesn't just involve throwing spells at things than any other edition - and I find that 4e is at its best when it's relatively combat-light, treating the combat as a desert rather than a main course. And the problem with the fighter is that just about all its abilities are combat-only, and the rest of the time it's basically just a strong commoner. (As you say the group fighter ended up cutting down trees; something that could have been done a strong first level commoner)

The 4e fighter was far better out of combat than the 5e one; training was worth a lot more, level scaling was more useful, and skills weren't made as redundant by spells.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Have you checked out Incantations, a 5E book of rare and spectacular (and often not combat-focused) magic?

I have not! I will check it out.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Oh, bleh. I misrememberd, which means Twin Spell just a bad spell points >> spell slot metamagic. Assuming you want to cast the same spell twice and have nothing better to spend your points on.

We may have been at cross purposes.

• A third level slot can be turned into three metamagic points
• It takes five metamagic points to create a third level slot
• With twin spell it takes three metamagic points to cast a third level spell. It saves you a metamagic point for first or second level spells and two for 3rd to 5th.

 

[Undrave]

It works in 4e and its clones (which includes 13Age), because that game revolves primarily around combat, often even the utilies. I say this as someone who loves playing 13Age.

It works in 4e because a short rest is 5 minutes instead of an hour, so you can define just about any obstacle as an Encounter.

I've often remarked that the thing that bugged me the most about 5e was that the design currency appeared to be measured in "spell units."

That they are making this even more explicit is not, IMO, a good thing. That said, this is my preference, and I tend to prefer magic to be rare and spectacular, not common and boring.

Yeah I noticed it too. It was particularly glaring in how races didn't have unique power that would be right there with your other racial traits, but instead would tell you 'You get this spell X amount of time per day' and just told you to go look in the damn Spell section.

Everything's just based on the Wizard's spell progression and every digressions from that has a cost.