D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Aldarc]

The old Warlock is only a Full Caster if the party and DM agree to a short rest. The entire premise that they stand with other Full Casters is dependent on other people.

And the new warlock still has access to the higher level spells. It is a little off giving them only one more invocation but turning Mystic Arcanum into an invocation, but you can still get ahold of any Arcane Spell in the game.

It's not just about whether the warlock has access to higher level spells but also about when they get access to them. A 2014 Fiend Warlock has access to Fireball at level 5. A 2024 Warlock does not have access to Fireball at level 5; instead, their access to 3rd level spells is delayed to 9th level, which is when most games - by WotC's own accounts! - are coming to a gradual end. As far as the game was concerned, the Warlock was treated as a full caster for purposes of spell progression.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But the Warlock is billed as this highly flexible class. You have all these invocation options, all these different directions you could go. But in the end, if you didn’t just create the Cowboy, your character is subpar and would have been better spent as a different class. Saying “THATS HOW WARLOCKS PLAY” doesn’t account for the fact that they give you all these options and make you think they can play these other ways when they can’t.

First, with this mechanic no one now plays that way. Which means that an entire playstyle has been eliminated from the game. Either the game is poorer for it or playing that way is BadWrongFun.

Second, you might have played your warlocks as Ghost Rider. I played mine as illusionists, pinch hitters, and lightweight healers. At second level, pact of the tome, I've had a warlock able to cast Silent Image at will, Disguise Self at will, and back that up by Sfx from Minor Illusion, Prestidigitatation, and Thaumaturgy. Oh, and they were a Vuman with the Actor feat. I can guarantee that that trickster with a swirling mass of illusions around them who used their spell slots when they wanted to make something that was actually real wasn't the Cowboy. (Eldritch Blast didn't come through until level 5)

I understand going from Pact Magic to Half Caster is a slight nerf

I don't know how many times I am going to have to repeat this. But I am less annoyed by the nerf than I am by stinking up the class by adding the previously unnecessary bookkeeping of managing low level spells and slots from multiple levels at once. One of the mechanical appeals of the warlock was not having to bother with that crap.

 

[Mistwell]

You only need a long rest on a day you're ending in a dangerous location. If you're in a safe location, resting is irrelevant.

That means nothing. We're talking about adventuring right? Everyone needs a long rest but only two types of PCs always need a short rest during adventuring. That's the issue.

 

[Mistwell]

I know tricks that wont work over and over again but I can pull out often didn't make sense to you?

We both know it wasn't that. Some could fit that description but any didn't and they put every single thing in that category.

 

[Mistwell]

I asked in the other thread but is my group the only one that averaged 1-2 short rests per adventureing day with 3 being way more common then 0?

three weeks ago we had an adventure that was more or less 3 adventuring days with 1 down day between the 1st and 2nd and 4 between the 2nd and 3rd... we got 3 short rests on 1st and 3rd and had 5 on the 2nd

I don't know what is common for groups as I can only speak from my own experience. But I can say the published adventures often have time constraints that make it such that "you can just take a short rest when you need to" wasn't a workable thing often in those adventures.

 

[mamba]

Sometimes a short rest is a risk, yes. Just like sometimes a long rest is a risk. In any case where resting is a risk, a short rest is a much lesser risk than a long rest (one eight of as much risk, to be precise).

it’s an unnecessary risk for most of the party, while they all need a full rest eventually.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

1. You dont'
2. Go with 3.5e multiclassing and track separate spell slots for separate class.
3. I'll try to think something later for MC rules in 5E style

I chose number 3.

 

[Charlaquin]

That means nothing. We're talking about adventuring right? Everyone needs a long rest but only two types of PCs always need a short rest during adventuring. That's the issue.

Well, no, if the adventuring day is properly paced, everyone should need two short rests per day, if only to recover hit points.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, no, if the adventuring day is properly paced, everyone should need two short rests per day, if only to recover hit points.

And while it is entirely possible to pace the day in my experience...thst is not universal, so I can see why WotC is making the pacing more loose.

 

[Charlaquin]

And while it is entirely possible to pace the day in my experience...thst is not universal, so I can see why WotC is making the pacing more loose.

Sure, I get that. But changing a class’s resource management to function across an adventuring day instead of an encounter-by-encounter basis is an enormous upheaval of the class’s play pattern, and is likely to turn off players who enjoyed the class as it was. So, again, if the way pact magic works in the 2014 PHB is causing problems, by all means make changes to address them. As long as those changes don’t make warlocks into a daily spell slot management class.