D&D General Fighting Law and Order

[Flamestrike]

I am curious - do these high level NPCs has nothing better to do than chase after low level murderers?

They're either NPC adventurers (getting paid) or agents of the powers that be (Bane Clerics, Assassins, Zhent warriors etc for the Zhents, Assassins and so forth for the Thieves Guild, or Champions, War Clerics, Mages, Knights and so forth for the local Lord).

I mean the Lord of Beregost (a town of 3000 people) is 16th level. He's not only the lord (so with access to Guard NPCs and a few Veterans etc) but also a big deal in the church, and can contact the Flaming Fist mercenaries (who are responsible for policing adventurers) in Baldurs Gate if he cant handle the PC's personally.

 

[Tutara]

They're either NPC adventurers (getting paid) or agents of the powers that be (Bane Clerics, Assassins, Zhent warriors etc for the Zhents, Assassins and so forth for the Thieves Guild, or Champions, War Clerics, Mages, Knights and so forth for the local Lord).

I mean the Lord of Beregost (a town of 3000 people) is 16th level. He's not only the lord (so with access to Guard NPCs and a few Veterans etc) but also a big deal in the church, and can contact the Flaming Fist mercenaries (who are responsible for policing adventurers) in Baldurs Gate if he cant handle the PC's personally.

Right, I've not made myself clear.

Why is there a need for adventurers at all in a civillisation where a small town of 3000 has a 16th level leader who is capable of calling in elite mercenaries, the Church or whatever else?

 

[Flamestrike]

Why is there a need for adventurers at all in a civillisation where a small town of 3000 has a 16th level leader who is capable of calling in elite mercenaries, the Church or whatever else?

For the same reasons Vladamir Putin use Wagner mercenaries, and the USA used Blackwater and other 'private security contractors' even though they have armies of Special Forces and literal Nukes at their disposal.

Adventurers exist to do dirty work.

 

[Tutara]

For the same reasons Vladamir Putin use Wagner mercenaries, and the USA used Blackwater and other 'private security contractors' even though they have armies of Special Forces and literal Nukes at their disposal.

Adventurers exist to do dirty work.

Fair enough. I guess I just struggle to square that with the idea that the party should be heroic - if the players are doing all the nasty immoral dirty work that the good guys won't do, then they aren't heroes, they're hired thugs at best. A fun campaign to be sure, but not everyone's cup of tea! My players certainly wouldn't want to play as anything resembling either of those organisations you give as examples. Thank you for your perspective, though.

 

[Flamestrike]

Fair enough. I guess I just struggle to square that with the idea that the party should be heroic - if the players are doing all the nasty immoral dirty work

Who said anything about the work being immoral?

Its more of a case of hiring a team of powerful and diverse specialists, to get the task done.

The local lord could storm the Kobolds caves with his army to rescue some captive kids. Or he could pay some adventurers to do the dirty work for him.

Even presuming his Army is free, and he doesnt mind dozens of casualties it boils down to a strike team of powerful specialist foreign vagabonds no-one is going to miss.

 

[Tutara]

Who said anything about the work being immoral?

Its more of a case of hiring a team of powerful and diverse specialists, to get the task done.

The local lord could storm the Kobolds caves with his army to rescue some captive kids. Or he could pay some adventurers to do the dirty work for him.

Even presuming his Army is free, and he doesnt mind dozens of casualties it boils down to a strike team of powerful specialist foreign vagabonds no-one is going to miss.

Your examples were both of organisations that are known for doing immoral things, and dirty work implied, well - dirty work. Killing civillians, acting extrajudiciously, committing crimes - anything that requires plausible deniability. I wish you'd not used real-life examples, as that is all I can say on that matter.

Rescuing kids isn't dirty work - it's basic stewardship of his people! How does he have these quantum forces that are both powerful enough to easily handle the players when they go rogue, but not skilled or powerful enough to save children from kobolds? He could do it himself, solo, in an hour or less.

I'm afraid I'm back to not getting it. I suspect I probably never will, but thank you for trying to explain.

EDIT: Typo

 

[Olrox17]

Your examples were both of organisations that are known for doing immoral things, and dirty work implied, well - dirty work. Killing civillians, acting extrajudiciously, committing crimes - anything that requires plausible deniability. I wish you'd not used real-life examples, as that is all I can say on that matter.

Rescuing kids isn't dirty work - it's basic stewardship of his people! How does he have these quantum forces that are both powerful enough to easily handle the players when they go rogue, but not skilled or powerful enough to save children from kobolds? He could do it himself, solo, in an hour or less.

I'm afraid I'm back to not getting it. I suspect I probably never will, but thank you for trying to explain.

EDIT: Typo

That kind of campaign setting design isn’t usually that hard to justify. Using the kobold caves example, maybe the kobolds would detect a large military force encroaching on their wilderness turf, and they would be gone (along with the hostages) before the military can even find them. Perhaps the military has some bigger fishes to fry at the moment. Perhaps sending a large militarily force in the nearby wilderness could alarm and provoke the nearby elves, dwarves and orcs.

It isn’t that hard to find justifications for the existence of a town that could defend itself from a mid-level adventuring party while still needing their help occasionally

 

[Flamestrike]

Rescuing kids isn't dirty work - it's basic stewardship of his people! How does he have these quantum forces that are both powerful enough to easily handle the players when they do rogue, but not skilled or powerful enough to save children from kobolds? He could do it himself, solo, in an hour or less.

He still gets to laud to the people if the PCs are successful. These great Heroes answered the call of the Kingdom and saved the children!

History (and literature) is rife with examples. It's not just a case of hiring PCs to do unsavory work, its that PCs are expendable, they're available, this is the sort of thing they do, the Lord or employer may have his goons doing other things at that moment (they don't live in stasis remember), or a million different reasons one might elect to hire a specialist team of diversely skilled professionals to do a task instead of sending in an Army, or risking the lives of friends to do it.

Then there are other reasons, like why did Elrond have 9 random dudes take the Ring of Power, when he could have arranged it in a million other ways (with all of Rivendell at his disposal). Barring Gandalf Elrond himself was 20 times more powerful than any Companion of the Ring. Why did Gandalf leave it to mortals and hold back his power?

Consider also Han Solo pissed of Jabba the Hutt. Jabba (despite having countless goons) hired bounty hunters to track him down. Darth Vader (despite having the resources of the entire Empire at his disposal, and also being himself, you know... Darth Vader) also did the same thing.

Speaking of those films, the entire 1st and 2nd film are the protagonists fleeing the Empire (who they pissed off) and half the third film is dealing with the consequences of Han pissing off a crime lord himself.

As a general rule dude, if you mess with powerful organizations, they're coming after you.

 

[Flamestrike]

Leaving aside the fact DnD worlds like Faerun are not medieval, does anyone here think that (historically) a bunch of vagabond foreigners could just ride into a town, murder a member of the landed Gentry (not even Nobility mind you), and ride out with zero repercussions?

Even murdering a lowly Serf, would see petitioners headed to the local landed knight (who was responsible for the areas protection) and ask for wereguild (hat in hand) at a minimum.

 

[Oofta]

I'm finding some really interesting links between this thread and the one discussing How much control DMs really need.

Like for example, some of the people advocating FULL DM control is preferable (in that thread) are advocating here, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, should the DM exercise that control to retcon or otherwise affect an outcome perceived as undesired.

I don't see much correlation between the two. One is who makes the final call on rulings and world building. It pretty explicitly has nothing to do with control of what the PCs do. The other is ignoring what the PCs do because you didn't like it and forcing them to "fix it" by playing the way you want. The real solution of just sitting down and having a chat about what kind of game they want and what kind of game the DM wants to run is also unrelated.