D&D General Fighting Law and Order

[Oofta]

DW has nothing to do with "creating plots for the players to run through". In fact, the structure of play which I set out in some detail not all that far upthread actively precludes any such thing.

It is D&D that is the quintessential RPG of "plots for the players to run through" - see most module published since DL - and games like AW are a reaction against that sort of RPGing.

As far as your comment about LotR, if it's not on the page then it's not in LotR! More or less by definition I would say, given that LotR is a book.

Just as you can imagine such times occurring to the protagonists of LotR, although JRRT doesn't waste our time on them, so a DW participant can imagine such times occurring to the protagonists in their game, but the table doesn't waste time on them.

As far as your preference for RPGing to be about the players engaging with a pre-established setting - ie declaring actions which prompt the GM to reveal more of that pre-established material - it is noted. The point that came up - I think from @EzekielRaiden and @AbdulAlhazred, and then elaborated by me - is that a different approach will be better suited to avoiding the problem set out in the OP.

You just missed the whole point of the post you responded to. In the real world and in D&D, nothing happens is perfectly legitimate. You're also wrong when it comes to the LOTR. When Gandalf tried to open the doors to the Mines of Moria, nothing happened. Similar things happened in The Hobbit when they were trying to open the secre back entrance. Sometimes nothing happens can be far better than something unrelated to what you were doing happens.

D&D isn't a story based game, a story emerges from the PCs interacting with the world.

 

[Oofta]

"All's quiet on the western front"?

All Quiet on the Western Front - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Been turned into a movie 3 times, won or was nominated for multiple top-tier movie awards each time?

I mean, it ain't obscure. This one is on you.

In relation to a game, one not dedicated to mass combat? Used to describe things that have absolutely nothing to do with battle? Why would I make that connection?

P.S. It's kind of odd that you quoted me on a random topic (and basically called me an idiot BTW ) then quoting things completely unrelated in response to a different person.

 

[Aldarc]

You're also wrong when it comes to the LOTR. When Gandalf tried to open the doors to the Mines of Moria, nothing happened.

And then GM (JRRT) makes a soft move hinting at a looming threat in the water.

Similar things happened in The Hobbit when they were trying to open the secre back entrance.

The GM (JRRT) makes a soft move offering the party the opportunity to find the entrance and remember the riddle with the cost of time and supplies.

Even B/X tries to avoid "nothing happens" through its use of wandering monster checks and the like.

 

[Oofta]

And then GM (JRRT) makes a soft move hinting at a looming threat in the water.


The GM (JRRT) makes a soft move offering the party the opportunity to find the entrance and remember the riddle with the cost of time and supplies.

Or ... since the characters need to accomplish a task they try something different. You try to open the lock, it doesn't work. What do you do now? That can be just as interesting. Sometimes there is no cost other than "it doesn't work".

I'd rather have that than a GM move that can feel disconnected from what the characters are doing.

 

[Aldarc]

I'd rather have that than a GM move that can feel disconnected from what the characters are doing.

Like being attacked by a kracken from a pond while solving a riddle to enter a magic door?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or ... since the characters need to accomplish a task they try something different. You try to open the lock, it doesn't work. What do you do now? That can be just as interesting. Sometimes there is no cost other than "it doesn't work".

I'd rather have that than a GM move that can feel disconnected from what the characters are doing.

Yeah, the whole "move" system feels artificial to me. Takes me out of the immersion I'm looking for.

 

[Oofta]

Like being attacked by a kracken from a pond while solving a riddle to enter a magic door?

Nothing happened in The Hobbit other than it didn't work. The tentacle monster? It attacked after a success.

 

[Aldarc]

Nothing happened in The Hobbit other than it didn't work. The tentacle monster? It attacked after a success.

And I already told you that those outcomes in the respective books are also totally compatible and inline with DW moves.

 

[Oofta]

And I already told you that those outcomes in the respective books are also totally compatible and inline with DW moves.

Serious question: the tentacle monster attacked after a success. I thought the GM couldn't make a hard move after a success?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But at what cost?

You've hunted at this sort of question before, and previously Micah Sweet wrote...

The genre is similar, but I don't see how DW is modeled after D&D otherwise.

And what is sacrificed in DW to "solve" these problems is more than I'm willing to pay.

And honestly, I find this baffling.

What do you mean "at what cost"/"what is sacrificed"? I genuinely don't understand. It doesn't seem to me that DW is "sacrificing" anything, and the "cost" is merely that GMs actually have a few rules they must abide by, just lile everyone else at the table.

So, what are these "costs" of which you speak? What is sacrificed? Because unless you can spell that out, these comments sound like specters without substance.