D&D (2024) How to balance the shield spell?

[Clint_L]

Like I said, fireball ain't that good.

Fireball ain't that good against one opponent - assuming your 60% saving throw fail rate, it's only 16-ish points damage, on average.

But its value increases quickly against multiple opponents. Against two you are averaging 32 DPR, which at level five is a respectable round. Three+ opponents and it is almost always a fantastic option. And against a large group, like a bunch of mooks...forget about it.

Fights against three or more opponents happen a lot, and the burst radius of fireball is large enough that you can usually get most of them in one fireball.

Here is what RPGBot has to say about it: "8d6 damage in a 20-foot radius with 150-foot range. Simple, effective, and reliable. Fireball is a good baseline for measuring other AOE damage spells because it’s so simple and so effective, and in many cases when you’re selecting a spell to cast you’ll want to ask yourself “Is this spell better than Fireball?”"

I concur.

 

[Incenjucar]

Not to mention why in earth would you use a fireball on a single target when there are cantrips.

 

[Scott Christian]

One of the most discussed spell of 5E is the shield. It's either a good spell on a wizard or broken on a high AC fighter/wizard/EK combo. Or pala/sorc combo.

No offense, but I fail to see how this spell is broken? Could you give me an actual example of how a paladin, who gives up an entire paladin level, is suddenly broken by being able to cast shield a few times a day?

 

[tetrasodium]

No offense, but I fail to see how this spell is broken? Could you give me an actual example of how a paladin, who gives up an entire paladin level, is suddenly broken by being able to cast shield a few times a day?

Treantmonk does a great job of summarizing why it's a disaster in about 2 minutes.

Spoiler: embed set to relevant timestamp

 

[Scott Christian]

Treantmonk does a great job of summarizing why it's a disaster in about 2 minutes.

Spoiler: embed set to relevant timestamp

Again, not one example that demonstrates how shield is broken. Just another "All the players I know take this dip for shield." My question is simple: Give me an example of where the shield spell breaks the game?

I really, truly can't think of one.

 

[tetrasodium]

Again, not one example that demonstrates how shield is broken. Just another "All the players I know take this dip for shield." My question is simple: Give me an example of where the shield spell breaks the game?

I really, truly can't think of one.

You've not made a case for anything. All you've done is reject the reason and declare it good.

 

[Incenjucar]

Shield cheaply and dramatically reduces the core vulnerability that wizards have to compensate for their absurd levels of power and versatility, and trivializes a round of defense against weapon/natural attacks, especially when combined with any other defenses.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Again, not one example that demonstrates how shield is broken. Just another "All the players I know take this dip for shield." My question is simple: Give me an example of where the shield spell breaks the game?

I really, truly can't think of one.

You can get AC 26 multiple times per day. That is broken if you know even a little bit of the math involved in 5e.

 

[Scott Christian]

You've not made a case for anything. All you've done is reject the reason and declare it good.

I did not make the claim that the shield spell is broken. Others did say that specifically:

It's either a good spell on a wizard or broken on a high AC fighter/wizard/EK combo.

It is literally the discussion of the thread. After reading the thread accepted this premise that it is broken. I do not. So I asked for an example.

You can get AC 26 multiple times per day. That is broken if you know even a little bit of the math involved in 5e.

You left out the part that it is until the start of your next turn (which, according to the math, most likely will not even be one round). So a player loses an entire level in their paladinhood, gains a hypothetical 26 AC (min/maxed to the core) for one or two attacks that don't involve spell saves, and that breaks the game? Again, show me where, in any online play, or in any case scenario, this has broken the combat for a DM to challenge their table?
If you are going to complain that things are not fair to the other players that don't get that, then please do that in your argument rather than scapegoating it to breaking the game's combat mechanics.

Shield cheaply and dramatically reduces the core vulnerability that wizards have to compensate for their absurd levels of power and versatility, and trivializes a round of defense against weapon/natural attacks, especially when combined with any other defenses.

I get the versatility argument against the wizard. I really do. But a fourth level wizard gets to cast this spell four times per long rest, providing they cast no other first level spells. Most of the time, depending on initiative, it won't even last a full round. That's four rounds this wizard gets to boost their AC, at the detriment of limiting this versatility, their damage output, and their choices. And none of this accounts for the times when a +5 doesn't stop the attack! I have still yet to see a well-rounded fourth level wizard have enough hit points to be able to take more than two shots from a common CR5 creature. (Which they encounter all the time.) So they stop an attack or two, how does that break the game's combat mechanics?
Again, I am asking for examples, not a mere knee-jerk reaction to either A) character envy or B) speculation.

 

[Clint_L]

Yeah, it's a bit OP at low levels. Not broken. Also disagree with the premise that Wizards are overpowered, unless we are talking at levels 17-20, which I don't particularly care about because they are joining the club at that point and those types of game are a beast unto themselves.

It does make a paladin very resistant to melee attacks, but the value of being resistant to melee attacks, and of armour class in particular, decreases dramatically as you go up in levels. Shield is mostly a low level problem and even there I've never found it "broken," and that's with years of running 5e campaigns at that level (I typically run 2 beginner campaigns each term).

At levels 1-5 the most "broken" mechanics that I run into are (probably, off the top of my head):

1. Healing Word, and it's not even close as far as runner-ups go. This is a completely game altering spell.
2. Moon druid wild shape.
3. Barbarian rage.
4. Paladin smite.
5. Pass without a Trace.
6. [special mention] Twilight Clerics (who can also have HW, which would make them #1 most broken thing at levels 1-5).

Most powerful class overall (again, levels 1-5): cleric
Runners up: druid (moon, from level 2), barbarian, paladin

The reason I am giving those rankings is to point out that having one really good, even arguably OP ability does not in itself make a class or the spell/ability "broken." You have to look at the big picture. Like, the ability to spam Stunning Strike can feel very OP in a lot of encounters, but few would argue that monks are OP.