D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Paladin ... Divine Smite is a Spell now

[DEFCON 1]

Mine and @Ruin Explorer's definition has been the commonly used one for literally decades. I've never even heard the one you are espousing until this thread.

 

[Maxperson]

I think all you are doing is once more demonstrating how the 2014 smite spells like blinding smite or wrathful smite were terrible terrible abilities compared to divine smite.

Yes and no. They were bad, but only because you had to cast them before you hit and maintain concentration on them if you missed, meaning that if the creature died before you hit it or you lost concentration, you wasted a spell slot entirely.

The change to make the spells usable after a hit was a good one. That's the only change that needed to happen to make those spells usable and good. Not great, but good.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Hey, if it matters that much to you to be right... then fine. You're right! Cue the sparklers and confetti!

 

[Sir Brennen]

Either way, what I've said is correct, and it's a significant change for Smite.

I didn't dispute that.

 

[billd91]

Because they just upgraded Rogues by moving from from "Once per round, on your turn" to "One per turn" with Sneak Attacks.

That may be an upgrade from previous iterations of the rogue in the OneD&D play test, but it's a restoration of the 2014 language.

 

[mellored]

And those are important differences that cause it to be thematically and mechanically crappy. Yes that's my opinion, and as such I will not use a 2024 paladin unless the 2024 paladin also has 2014 style smites.

I don't see a thematical difference at all. And only a very minor mechanical one that you could go several levels without ever coming up.

So sure. Make it "not a spell." Might as well reduce the page count a bit.

As a Bonus Action, which you take immediately after hitting a target with a melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike, you can expend a spell slot to use add one of the following extra effects to your attack. You gain additional options at higher level.

Divine: deal 1d8 extra radiant damage, plus 1d8 per spell slot level spent. If the target is a fiend or undead, increase it by another 1d8

Thunder: deal 1d6 extra thunder damage, plus 1d8 per spell slot level spent. And push the target 10'.

...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

which is a cost now.
better version would be a free action that you can take once per turn.

So. A bonus action...

please don't add another free action usable once per round...

 

[shadowoflameth]

So, the big change is Divine Smite has been codified as an actual Paladin Spell. This opens up some fun, like using charging up Rings of Spell Storing with Smites. It also eliminates the additional ruling about how you can't cast a spell (especially a Smite spell) and use Divine Smite together in a much cleaner way. It also is now a target for counterspell, so that can be ... fun? I'm a Blue Mage, I cackled at that. Also Arcane Trickster Rogues can steal it for themselves.

IMHO These spells should follow the template of Greenflame Blade and not require the Paladin's bonus action. Just make the somatic component the Melee Weapon Attack. Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade can be counter-spelled too but in my experience it rarely happens.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That may be an upgrade from previous iterations of the rogue in the OneD&D play test, but it's a restoration of the 2014 language.

I'm aware - I actually mentioned that but edited it out as unnecessary at one point lol - I should have known better!

My point is though is that, in the same packet, Paladin Smite is being made drastically less usable, in a very similar (but not identical) way to the Rogue Sneak Attack. It's really dumb and un-joined-up design. They should have had the basic awareness and foresight to realize that if the public made then change Rogues back, they'll end up being made to change Paladins back. And it's dumb because the idea of Smite-as-spell is a good one, it's just the idiotic bonus action that's a problem.

 

[Sir Brennen]

IMHO These spells should follow the template of Greenflame Blade and not require the Paladin's bonus action. Just make the somatic component the Melee Weapon Attack. Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade can be counter-spelled too but in my experience it rarely happens.

Greenflame Blade works because it's a cantrip, and the somatic component is a weapon attack, not a hit. If you miss, you're not out a spell slot.

So, for the Divine Smite spell(s), you'd either have to make the somatic component a weapon hit (weird), or make it a cantrip, including scaling damage like a cantrip. That would open up an entire other can of worms, since they removed cantrips from paladins this playtest.