D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Flex is bad as it is linked to next to useless property.

No one is taking Versatile because of off chance that you might lose a shield once in 10 levels of a campaign.

If I were a NPC quartermaster, I would never order longswords, just bunch of rapiers as it's the same damage for STR and DEX characters and I might get a bulk discount.

Longsword and its equivalents need to have d10 damage(V d12) to be used over rapier.

Then flex of d12 with STR attack is comparable to d8 with vex and DEX attack.

So... what do you do with heavy two handed weapons that cap out at d12? Why ever choose them over wielding a versatile weapon in two hands?

 

[Horwath]

So... what do you do with heavy two handed weapons that cap out at d12? Why ever choose them over wielding a versatile weapon in two hands?

1d12/2d6, martial, heavy, 2handed -> 2d8
1d10, martial, heavy, 2Handed, reach -> 2d6

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

You have higher hopes than I do.

Weapon mastery aside, not a single new or radically different mechanic has survived. We've gotten a few new class features (cunning strike, or the new capstones), a few features that were buffed and a slim few that were nerfed (wild shape, at least until the survey reveals players want their buckets of temp HP and WotC caves).

Which is why I have no real expectations going forward that this isn't just making Tasha's style "optional class feature" and making them core, with a side portion of errata. Even if they DO try to iterate, the community will push them back to the 2014 version anyway.

Maybe 5e truly IS evergreen; neither WotC nor the fan base want it to actually change.

As much as I prefer some of the playtest mechanics, the designers promised they would listen to the community. The Community voted and the designers are listening. Gotta respect that they are sticking to their word. Despite the frustration it causes me over losing templated willdshape.

 

[Parmandur]

And then it would actually be both +1 damage and +2AC instead of just one or the other, which in my opinion would be enough of a boost to keep up with the other masteries. It would make two-handing or one-handing-with-shield into a purely cosmetic choice for flex weapon masters, but I guess that’s fine. And it would preserve flex’s niche as the “simple mastery.” Seems like a solid solution.

It would still have a choice in regards to fighting style and magic items usage, but it just might work.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

1d12/2d6, martial, heavy, 2handed -> 2d8
1d10, martial, heavy, 2Handed, reach -> 2d6

Would the Community be behind a new paradigm where martial greatweapons deal 2d8 damage? That is a jump of 4 points to the damage cap, not just 2 points.

Does the math feel right for a 17th level fighter to be able to Action Surge and swing their maul 8 times for 16d8+8xStr mod damage, before all the other benefits they get at high level and with magic items?

 

[Parmandur]

If WotC is happy, how do you explain packets 2 - 5? Those looked like major changes being suggested. Was WotC trolling us? Was it a giant "J/K, here's our real suggestions for minor changes"?

Data collection. That's why Crawford said in this video thst they were very happy with the intense reaction to the UA 5 Warlock, because they got great data on why people like the Warlock.

 

[Remathilis]

Data collection. That's why Crawford said in this video thst they were very happy with the intense reaction to the UA 5 Warlock, because they got great data on why people like the Warlock.

Hey kids, would you like chocolate ice cream?
Yeah yeah!!
Oh, ok. I'm not going to give you any, I just wanted to know if you would like it or not.
...

 

[Horwath]

Would the Community be behind a new paradigm where martial greatweapons deal 2d8 damage? That is a jump of 4 points to the damage cap, not just 2 points.

and the minimum is the same, so on average is just over 2 pts(including crits)

Does the math feel right for a 17th level fighter to be able to Action Surge and swing their maul 8 times for 16d8+8xStr mod damage, before all the other benefits they get at high level and with magic items?

Since we do not have +10 bonus from GWM no more and WotC thinks that players are too stupid to do simple multiplications and have 1+1/2 STR mod to damage for 2Handed melee weapon, yeah, 2Handers need a damage boost.
Simply to justify taking them over 1Handed finesse + shield

now, take greataxe with GWF style: 7,33+5 pts of damage.
rapier + dueling style: 4,5+2 +5 pts of damage.

STR can have higher AC by 1, so that is 1 AC benefit from dueling+shield

Does +0,5 damage per hit(with 60% hit rate) balances losing 1 AC point and having pathetic ranged option comparing to DEX character?

So your action surge fighter is doing 4 damage more right now with 8 attacks. What a joke.

 

[Remathilis]

As much as I prefer some of the playtest mechanics, the designers promised they would listen to the community. The Community voted and the designers are listening. Gotta respect that they are sticking to their word. Despite the frustration it causes me over losing templated willdshape.

I gotta agree with this. The community is as guilty of getting cold feet on changes as the designers are. Perhaps it's because if you ask twenty D&D players to fix something, you'll get twenty one different answers. We can't form a majority consensus there is a problem, let alone how to fix it. And so it will always be easier to tweak what already exists over actually changing things.

 

[Parmandur]

Hey kids, would you like chocolate ice cream?
Yeah yeah!!
Oh, ok. I'm not going to give you any, I just wanted to know if you would like it or not.
...

Chocolate ice cream arr the 2014 rules. The playtests in question were mint bubblegum or popcorn ice cream. Trying stuff out, see what sticks. They were clear on the process from day 1.