D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Zeromaru X]

Because when you read comics, it is in keeping with the fiction that he can rewind time

And it's not keeping with the fiction that superhuman (or superelfy, or superdwarf, etc.) adventurer can lift extraordinary weights? Run faster than anyone? Crush rocks with their hands? Slice in half a single drop of water with their sword with a swift movement?

I guess my expectations from fiction are different than yours.

Does that make a rules system bad? I don't think so. The rules could not have been tailored to someone's specific expectations...

 

[Gammadoodler]

it would seem weird and break the suspension of disbelief if he tried to trip an incredibly heavy object that had a completely stable base.

I mean cubes aren't that stable. They're pretty susceptible to shear forces.

If you want real stability, you want a gelatinous pyramid.

Also, I feel like reframing the maneuvers as "disruptive jiggling" could reduce some of the "real-world" dissonance folks are experiencing (and hopefully cause people to use the word "jiggle" more often in this thread).

 

[CleverNickName]

Y'all. Don't make me break out the Poise values and Froude numbers.

Because I will.

 

[Zaukrie]

an astounding amount of posts on the cube.....wow. Do people think they are convincing anyone of anything, or is it just fun for you, genuinely curious. (and, ya, that's off topic too)

 

[JAMUMU]

I mean cubes aren't that stable. They're pretty susceptible to shear forces.

If you want real stability, you want a gelatinous pyramid.

Also, I feel like reframing the maneuvers as "disruptive jiggling" could reduce some of the "real-world" dissonance folks are experiencing (and hopefully cause people to use the word "jiggle" more often in this thread).

In certain martial arts that "disruptive jiggling" you speak of is called "breaking the center/disrupting the base" and also "ragdolling", so you could tell the GM your intent is to "disruptively jiggle the goblin until they break their base and are ragdollable" and all that on one single roll of a d20. Gosh, I just love the future!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Absolutely. But note how that stems from your preferences, not the game itself. You want something that 4E does not deliver. That doesn't make the game itself bad. And there's nothing wrong with your preferences, or anyone else's, they just didn't fit with that edition. If you were coming from 3X, there was an easy off ramp in Pathfinder. If you were still having fun with older stuff, no reason to stop. And seriously, it's out of print. It's long gone. Not only has there been another edition in print for nearly a decade, there's a revision of that "new" edition in the offing. Just let other people like something you* don't.

*General you there. Not calling you out specifically. It just gets so old.

I'm not stopping anyone from liking 4e. It's a good game that's not for me for specific reasons, and I don't see why I have to keep silent about my preferences because some people here don't share them. People who do like 4e certainly aren't shy about talking about it.

 

[JAMUMU]

an astounding amount of posts on the cube.....wow. Do people think they are convincing anyone of anything, or is it just fun for you, genuinely curious. (and, ya, that's off topic too)

Some people ponder their orb. Others ponder their cube. The war is coming.

 

[darjr]

an astounding amount of posts on the cube.....wow. Do people think they are convincing anyone of anything, or is it just fun for you, genuinely curious. (and, ya, that's off topic too)

Lol. Mostly just chatting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, I just ate some jello. It was a nice cube shaped piece. I didn't have much problem flipping it on it's side with a spoon. Now you might say that a gelatinous cube has less surface tension than my black cherry jello, since it engulfs anything it moves onto, but at the same time, it's able to maintain a relatively stable shape and it takes damage from being struck by weapons, so it's obviously not just formless goop either.

Is that in support of or against tripping an ooze having the same effect as tripping something with legs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

True. Making powers work in the fiction would make them much more complicated and/or wordy. 4E thought that hassle wasn't worth the trouble and made the maneuvers happen when the player felt like it.

I blame the people who ignored/disliked the 3E combat maneuver sub systems.

Certainly not one of those people. I'm glad for people that like 4e that it exists for them, but I never asked for it.